mn.14 Majjhima Nikāya (Middle Discourses)

Thus have I heard:

At one time the Lord was staying among the Sakyans at Kapilavatthu in Nigrodha's park. Then Mahānāma the Sakyan approached the Lord; having approached, having greeted the Lord, he sat down at a respectful distance. As Mahānāma the Sakyan was sitting down at a respectful distance, he spoke thus to the Lord:

“For a long time, Lord, I have thus understood Dhamma taught by the Lord: ‘Greed is a depravity of the mind, aversion is a depravity of the mind, confusion is a depravity of the mind.’ It is thus that I, Lord, understand Dhamma taught by the Lord: ‘Greed is a depravity of the mind, aversion is a depravity of the mind, confusion is a depravity of the mind.’ But at times things belonging to greed, taking hold of my mind, persist, and things belonging to aversion, taking hold of my mind, persist, and things belonging to confusion, taking hold of my mind, persist. It occurred to me thus, Lord: ‘Now what can be the quality in me, not got rid of subjectively, on account of which at times things belonging to greed, taking hold of my mind, persist, and things belonging to aversion, taking hold of my mind, persist, and things belonging to confusion, taking hold of my mind, persist?’”

“Indeed there is a quality in you, Mahānāma, not got rid of subjectively, on account of which at times things belonging to greed, taking hold of your mind, persist, and things belonging to aversion, taking hold of your mind, persist, and things belonging to confusion, taking hold of your mind, persist. But this quality could be got rid of subjectively by you, Mahānāma, if you would not dwell in a house, if you would not enjoy pleasures of the senses. But inasmuch as this quality, Mahānāma, is not got rid of by you subjectively, therefore you dwell in a house and enjoy pleasures of the senses. Pleasures of the senses are of little satisfaction, of much ill, of much tribulation wherein is more peril.

Yet if this, Mahānāma, comes to be well seen as it really is, through perfect intuitive wisdom by an ariyan disciple, but if he does not come to rapture and joy apart from pleasures of the senses, apart from unskilled states of mind, or to something better than that, then he is not yet one unseduced by pleasures of the senses. But when, Mahānāma, an ariyan disciple thinks: ‘Pleasures of the senses are of little satisfaction, of much ill, of much tribulation wherein is more peril.’ and if this comes to be well seen, as it really is, through perfect intuitive wisdom by the ariyan disciple, and if he comes to rapture and joy apart from pleasures of the senses, apart from unskilled states of mind, and to something better than that, then he is one who is not seduced by pleasures of the senses.

And I too, Mahānāma, before my awakening while I was still the bodhisatta, not fully awakened, thought: ‘Pleasures of the senses are of little satisfaction, of much ill, of much tribulation wherein is more peril.’ and although this came to be well seen thus, as it really is, through perfect intuitive wisdom, I came to no rapture and joy apart from pleasures of the senses, apart from unskilled states of mind, nor to anything better than that. So I was conscious that I was not yet one unseduced by pleasures of the senses. But when, Mahānāma, I thought: ‘Pleasures of the senses are of little satisfaction, of much ill, of much tribulation wherein is more peril.’ and when this was well seen thus, as it really is, through perfect intuitive wisdom, and I came to rapture and joy apart from the pleasures of the senses, apart from unskilled states of mind, and to something better than that, then was I conscious that I was one not seduced by pleasures of the senses.

And what, Mahānāma, is the satisfaction in pleasures of the senses? These five, Mahānāma, are the strands of sense-pleasures. What five? Material shapes cognisable by the eye, agreeable, pleasant, liked, enticing, connected with sensual pleasures, alluring. Sounds cognisable by the ear, agreeable, pleasant, liked, enticing, connected with sensual pleasures, alluring. Smells cognisable by the nose, agreeable, pleasant, liked, enticing, connected with sensual pleasures, alluring. Tastes cognisable by the tongue, agreeable, pleasant, liked, enticing, connected with sensual pleasures, alluring. Touches cognisable by the body, agreeable, pleasant, liked, enticing, connected with sensual pleasures, alluring. These, Mahānāma, are the five strands of sense-pleasures. Whatever pleasure, whatever happiness arises in consequence of these five strands of sense-pleasures, this is the satisfaction in sense-pleasures.

And what, Mahānāma, is the peril in sense-pleasures? In this case, Mahānāma, a young man of family earns his living by some craft, such as reckoning on the fingers, such as calculation, such as computing, such as agriculture, such as being in a rajah's service, such as by another craft. He is afflicted by the cold, he is afflicted by the heat, suffering from the touch of gadflies, mosquitoes, wind, sun, creeping things, dying of hunger and thirst. This, Mahānāma, is a peril in pleasures of the senses that is present, a stem of ill, having pleasures of the senses as the cause, having pleasures of the senses as the provenance, being a consequence of pleasures of the senses, the very cause of pleasures of the senses.

If, Mahānāma, this young man of family rouses himself, exerts himself, strives thus, but if these possessions do not come to his hand, he grieves, mourns, laments, beating his breast and wailing, he falls into disillusionment, and thinks: ‘Indeed my exertion is vain, indeed my striving is fruitless.’ This too, Mahānāma, is a peril in the pleasures of the senses that is present, a stem of ill, having pleasures of the senses as the cause, having pleasures of the senses as the provenance, being a consequence of pleasures of the senses, the very cause of pleasures of the senses.

If, Mahānāma, this young man of family rouses himself, exerts himself, strives thus, and these possessions come to his hand, he experiences suffering and sorrow in consequence of looking after them, and thinks: ‘Now by what means may neither kings nor thieves take away my possessions, nor fire burn them, nor water carry them away, nor heirs whom I do not like take them away?’ Although he looks after these possessions and guards them, kings do take them away or thieves take them away, or fire burns them or water carries them away, or heirs whom he does not like take them away. He grieves, mourns, laments, beating his breast and wailing, he falls into disillusionment, and thinks: ‘I do not even have that which was mine.’ This too, Mahānāma, is a peril in the pleasures of the senses that is present, a stem of ill, having pleasures of the senses as the cause, having pleasures of the senses as the provenance, being a consequence of pleasures of the senses, the very cause of pleasures of the senses.

And again, Mahānāma, when sense-pleasures are the cause, sense-pleasures the provenance, sense-pleasures the consequence, the very cause of sense-pleasures, kings dispute with kings, nobles dispute with nobles, brahmans dispute with brahmans, householders dispute with householders, a mother disputes with her son, a son disputes with his mother, a father disputes with his son, a son disputes with his father, a brother disputes with a brother, a brother disputes with a sister, a sister disputes with a brother, a friend disputes with a friend. Those who enter into quarrel, contention, dispute and attack one another with their hands and with stones and with sticks and with weapons, these suffer dying then and pain like unto dying. This too, Mahānāma, is a peril in the pleasures of the senses that is present, a stem of ill, having pleasures of the senses as the cause, having pleasures of the senses as the provenance, being a consequence of pleasures of the senses, the very cause of pleasures of the senses.

And again, Mahānāma, when sense-pleasures are the cause, sense-pleasures the provenance, sense-pleasures the consequence, the very cause of sense-pleasures, having taken sword and shield, having girded on bow and quiver, both sides mass for battle and arrows are hurled and knives are hurled and swords are flashing. These who wound with arrows and wound with knives and decapitate with their swords, these suffer dying then and pain like unto dying. This too, Mahānāma, is a peril in the pleasures of the senses that is present, a stem of ill, having pleasures of the senses as the cause, having pleasures of the senses as the provenance, being a consequence of pleasures of the senses, the very cause of pleasures of the senses.

And again, Mahānāma, when sense-pleasures are the cause, sense-pleasures the provenance, sense-pleasures the consequence, the very cause of sense-pleasures, having taken sword and shield, having girded on bow and quiver, they leap on to the newly daubed ramparts, and arrows are hurled and knives are hurled and swords are flashing. Those who wound with arrows and wound with knives and pour boiling cow-dung over them and crush them with the (falling) portcullis and decapitate them with their swords, these suffer dying then and pain like unto dying. This too, Mahānāma, is a peril in the pleasures of the senses that is present, a stem of ill, having pleasures of the senses as the cause, having pleasures of the senses as the provenance, being a consequence of pleasures of the senses, the very cause of pleasures of the senses.

And again, Mahānāma, when sense-pleasures are the cause, sense-pleasures the provenance, sense-pleasures the consequence, the very cause of sense-pleasures, they break into a house and carry off the booty and behave as a thief and wait in ambush and go to other men's wives. Kings, having arrested such a one, deal out various punishments. They lash him with whips and they lash him with canes and they lash him with (birch) rods, and they cut off his hand, and they cut off his foot, and they cut off his hand and foot, and they cut off his ear, and they cut off his nose, and they cut off his ear and nose, and they give him the ‘gruel-pot’ punishment, and they give him the ‘shell-tonsure’ punishment, and they give him the ‘Rahu's mouth.’ punishment, and they give him the ‘fire-garland’ punishment, and they give him the ‘flaming hand’ punishment, and they give him the ‘hay-twist’ punishment, and they give him the ‘bark-dress’ punishment, and they give him the ‘antelope’ punishment, and they give him the ‘flesh-hooking’ punishment, and they give him the ‘disc-slice’ punishment, and they give him the ‘pickling process’ punishment, and they give him the ‘circling the pin.’ punishment, and they give him the ‘straw mattress.’ punishment, and they spray him with boiling oil, give him as food to the dogs, impale him alive on stakes and decapitate him with a sword. This too, Mahānāma, is a peril in the pleasures of the senses that is present, a stem of ill, having pleasures of the senses as the cause, having pleasures of the senses as the provenance, being a consequence of pleasures of the senses, the very cause of pleasures of the senses.

And again, Mahānāma, when sense-pleasures are the cause, sense-pleasures the provenance, sense-pleasures the consequence, the very cause of sense-pleasures, they behave wrongly in body, they behave wrongly in speech, they behave wrongly in thought. These, having behaved wrongly in body, in speech, in thought, at the breaking up of the body after dying, arise in a sorrowful state, a bad bourn, the abyss, Niraya Hell. This, Mahānāma, is a peril in pleasures of the senses that is of the future, a stem of ill, having pleasures of the senses as the cause, having pleasures of the senses as the provenance, being a consequence of pleasures of the senses, the very cause of pleasures of the senses.

At one time I, Mahānāma, was staying near Rājagaha on Mount Vulture Peak. Now at that time several Jains on the Black Rock on the slopes of (Mount) Isigili came to be standing erect and refusing a seat; they were experiencing feelings that were acute, painful, sharp, severe. Then I, Mahānāma, having emerged from solitary meditation towards evening, approached the slopes of (Mount) Isigili, the Black Rock and those Jains; having approached I spoke thus to those Jains: ‘Why do you, reverend Jains, standing erect and refusing a seat, experience feelings that are acute, painful sharp, severe? When I had thus spoken, Mahānāma, those Jains spoke thus to me: ‘Your reverence, Nāthaputta the Jain is all-knowing, all-seeing; he claims all-embracing knowledge-and-vision, saying: “Whether I am walking or standing still or asleep or awake, knowledge-and-vision is permanently and continuously before me.” He speaks thus: “If there is, Jains, an evil deed that was formerly done by you, wear it away by this severe austerity. That which is the non-doing of an evil deed in the future is from control of body, from control of speech, from control of thought here, now. Thus by burning up, by making an end of former deeds, by the non-doing of new deeds, there is no flowing in the future. Prom there being no flowing in the future is the destruction of deeds; from the destruction of deeds is the destruction of ill; from the destruction of ill is the destruction of feeling; from the destruction of feeling all ill will become worn away.” And because that is approved of by us as well as being pleasing to us, therefore we are delighted.’

When they had spoken thus, I, Mahānāma, spoke thus to those Jains: ‘But do you, reverend Jains, know that you yourselves were in the past, that you were not not?’ ‘Not this, your reverence.’ ‘But do you, reverend Jains, know that you yourselves did this evil deed in the past, that you did not not do it?’ ‘Not this, your reverence.’ ‘But do you, reverend Jains, know that you did not do an evil deed like this or like that?’ ‘Not this, your reverence.’ ‘But do you, reverend Jains, know that so much ill is worn away, or that so much ill is to be worn away, or that when so much ill is worn away, all ill will become worn away?’ ‘Not this, your reverence.’ ‘But do you, reverend Jains, know the getting rid of unskilled states of mind here and now, the uprising of skilled states?’ ‘Not this, your reverence.’

‘From what you say, reverend Jains, you do not know then whether you yourselves were in the past, whether you were not not; you do not know whether in the past you yourselves did this evil deed, whether you did not not do it; you do not know whether you did an evil deed like this or like that; you do not know so much ill is worn away, or that so much ill is to be worn away, or that when so much ill is worn away all ill will become worn away; you do not know the getting rid of unskilled states of mind, the uprising of skilled states.

This being so, reverend Jains, do those who are born again among men in the world and are hunters, bloody-handed, dealing in cruelty, do these go forth among the Jains?’ ‘Now, reverend Gotama, happiness is not to be achieved through happiness, happiness is to be achieved through pain. If, reverend Gotama, happiness were to be achieved through happiness, King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha could achieve happiness, King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha would be more of a dweller in happiness than the venerable Gotama.’

‘Undoubtedly this speech was made hastily by the reverend Jains, without deliberation: “Now, reverend Gotama, happiness is not to be achieved through happiness, happiness is to be achieved through pain. If, reverend Gotama, happiness were to be achieved through happiness, King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha could achieve happiness, King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha would be more of a dweller in happiness than the venerable Gotama.” For it is I who should be questioned thus on this subject: ‘Which of these venerable ones is more of a dweller in happiness: King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha or the venerable Gotama?’

‘Undoubtedly, reverend Gotama, this speech was made by us hastily, without deliberation: “Now, reverend Gotama, happiness is not to be achieved through happiness, happiness is to be achieved through pain. If, reverend Gotama, happiness were to be achieved through happiness, King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha could achieve happiness, King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha would be more of a dweller in happiness than the venerable Gotama.” But let that be, for now we will question the venerable Gotama: Which of the venerable ones is more of a dweller in happiness: King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha or the venerable Gotama?’

‘Well then, reverend Jains, I will ask you a question in return on that very subject. As it pleases you, so reply to it. What do you think about this, reverend Jains? Is King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha, without moving his body, without uttering a word, able to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for seven nights and days?’ ‘No, your reverence.’ ‘What do you think about this, reverend Jains? Is King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha, without moving his body, without uttering a word, able to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for six nights and days?’ ‘No, your reverence.’ Is King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha, without moving his body, without uttering a word, able to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for five nights and days, for four nights and days, for three nights and days, for two nights and days, for one night and day?’ ‘No, your reverence.’ ‘But I, reverend Jains, am able, without moving my body, without uttering a word, to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for one night and day. I, reverend Jains, am able, without moving my body, without uttering a word, to stay experiencing nothing but happiness for two nights and days, for three nights and days, four nights and days, five nights and days, six nights and days, for seven nights and days.

What do you think about this, reverend Jains? This being so, who is more of a dweller in happiness, King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha or I?’ ‘This being so, the venerable Gotama himself is more of a dweller in happiness than King Seniya Bimbisāra of Magadha.’”

Thus spoke the Lord. Delighted, Mahānāma the Sakyan rejoiced in what the Lord had said.

The Lesser Discourse on the Stems of Anguish: The Fourth

Thus have I heard. On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling among the Sakyans, at Kapilavatthu, in the Banyan Park. Then Mahānāma the Sakyan approached the Blessed One, paid respects to him, and sat to one side. When he was seated to one side, Mahānāma said to the Blessed One, “Bhante, for a long time I have understood the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One in this way: ‘Greed is a defilement of the mind, hate is a defilement of the mind, delusion is a defilement of the mind.’ Bhante, this is how I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One: ‘Greed is a defilement of the mind, hate is a defilement of the mind, delusion is a defilement of the mind.’ But sometimes my mind is overwhelmed by the nature of greed, the nature of hate, and the nature of delusion. Bhante, it occurs to me, ‘What phenomenon has not been internally abandoned by me, on account of which my mind is sometimes overwhelmed by the nature of greed, the nature of hate, and the nature of delusion?’

“Mahānāma, there is a phenomenon which has not been internally abandoned by you, on account of which your mind is sometimes overwhelmed by the nature of greed, the nature of hate, and the nature of delusion. Mahānāma, if that phenomenon was internally abandoned by you, you would not live a household life, and you would not indulge in sensuality. Mahānāma, because that phenomenon has not been internally abandoned by you, you still live a household life and you still indulge in sensuality.

“‘Sensuality has little gratification – it brings much suffering and much anguish; the drawback here is greater.’ Mahānāma, even if a disciple of the noble ones has truly seen this well with correct wisdom, if he does not attain rapture and happiness apart from sensuality and unwholesome phenomena¹ or something more peaceful than that², then he does not turn away from sensuality. Mahānāma, when a disciple of the noble ones has truly seen well with correct wisdom that ‘sensuality has little gratification – it brings much suffering and much anguish; the drawback here is greater,’ and he attains rapture and happiness apart from sensuality and unwholesome phenomena or something more peaceful than that, then he turns away from sensuality.

“Mahānāma, before my Awakening, when I was still an unawakened Bodhisatta³, I truly saw well with correct wisdom that ‘sensuality has little gratification – it brings much suffering and much anguish; the drawback here is greater.’ However, I did not attain rapture and happiness apart from sensuality and unwholesome phenomena or something more peaceful than that, so I did not turn away from sensuality. But, Mahānāma, when I truly saw well with correct wisdom that ‘sensuality has little gratification – it brings much suffering and much anguish; the drawback here is greater,’ and I attained rapture and happiness apart from sensuality and unwholesome phenomena or something more peaceful than that, then I turned away from sensuality.

“Mahānāma, what is the gratification in relation to sensuality? The Buddha then states the gratification and the danger in relation to sensuality exactly as in MN13 Mahādukkhakkhandha Sutta …this is a future drawback in relation to sensuality: the mass of suffering which is caused by sensuality, originates in sensuality, is the consequence of sensuality – the cause of which is just sensuality.

“Mahānāma, on one occasion I was living at Rājagaha, at Vulture‘s Peak Mountain. On that occasion many Nigaṇṭhas⁴ were at Isigili Slope, on Black Rock, practicing continuous standing and refusing to sit down; they were feeling acute pain that was piercing, harsh, and bitter. Then, Mahānāma, I emerged from retreat in the evening and approached those Nigaṇṭhas at Isigili Slope on Black Rock, and said to them, ‘Venerables, why are you Nigaṇṭhas practicing continuous standing and refusing to sit down, such that you are feeling acute pain that is piercing, harsh, and bitter?’ Mahānāma, when this was said, those Nigaṇṭhas said to me, ‘Venerable, Nigaṇṭha Nātaputta knows all and sees all, and he claims to have absolute knowledge and vision: “Whether moving or standing, sleeping or awake, I have established continuous, constant knowledge and vision.” He says, “Nigaṇṭhas, you have performed harmful karma in the past; you can erode it with this bitter austerity. If you are now restrained by body, speech, and mind, then you will not make any harmful karma in the future; when your old karma has been destroyed by spiritual heat⁵ and you do not make any new karma, then there will be no further effect in the future; with no further effect in the future, there is the elimination of karma; with the elimination of karma, there is the elimination of suffering; with the elimination of suffering, there is the elimination of feelings; with the elimination of feelings, all suffering will be worn away.” That is what we approve of and accept, and we are satisfied with that.’

“Mahānāma, when this was said, I said to those Nigaṇṭhas, ‘Venerable Nigaṇṭhas, do you know what you have or have not done in the past?’ ‘No, Venerable.’ ‘Venerable Nigaṇṭhas, do you know whether or not you have previously made harmful karma?’ ‘No, Venerable.’ ‘Venerable Nigaṇṭhas, do you know what kind of harmful karma you have made?’ ‘No, Venerable.’ ‘Venerable Nigaṇṭhas, do you know how much suffering has been eroded, how much remains to be eroded, and when all of it will be eroded?’ ‘No, Venerable.’ ‘Venerable Nigaṇṭhas, do you know the immediate abandoning of unwholesome phenomena and the taking up of wholesome phenomena?’ ‘No, Venerable.’

“‘Venerable Nigaṇṭhas, it seems that you do not know what you have or have not done in the past; you do not know whether or not you have previously made harmful karma; you do not know what kind of harmful karma you have made; you do not know how much suffering has been eroded, how much remains to be eroded, and when all of it will be eroded; and you do not know the immediate abandoning of unwholesome phenomena and the taking up of wholesome phenomena. This being so, Venerable Nigaṇṭhas, when bloody-handed killers who have performed cruel deeds are reborn among humans, they go forth in the Nigaṇṭhas.’ ‘Venerable Gotama, happiness is not to be gained through pleasure, happiness is to be gained through pain. Gotama, if happiness could be gained through pleasure, then King Seniya Bimbasāra of Māgadha would gain happiness and live with more happiness than Venerable Gotama.’

“‘Surely the Nigaṇṭhas spoke hastily and without consideration when they said “Venerable Gotama, happiness is not to be gained through pleasure, happiness is to be gained through pain. Gotama, if happiness could be gained through pleasure, then King Seniya Bimbisāra of Māgadha would gain happiness and live with more happiness than Venerable Gotama.” But I will ask a counter-question: who lives with more happiness – King Seniya Bimbisāra of Māgadha, or Venerable Gotama?’ ‘Gotama, surely we spoke hastily and without consideration when we said “Venerable Gotama, happiness is not to be gained through pleasure, happiness is to be gained through pain. Gotama, if happiness could be gained through pleasure, then King Seniya Bimbisāra of Māgadha would gain happiness and live with more happiness than Venerable Gotama.” So let us set that aside, and now we will ask Venerable Gotama, “Who lives with more happiness – King Seniya Bimbisāra of Māgadha, or Venerable Gotama?”’

“‘Therefore, Nigaṇṭhas, I will ask you a counter-question; answer as you see fit. What do you think, Nigaṇṭhas? Is King Seniya Bimbisāra of Māgadha able to, without moving his body or speaking a word, live for seven days experiencing pure happiness?’ ‘No, Venerable.’

“‘What do you think, Nigaṇṭhas? Is King Seniya Bimbisāra of Māgadha able to, without moving his body or speaking a word, live for six days… five days… four days… three days… two days… one day experiencing pure happiness?’ ‘No, Venerable.’

“‘Venerable Nigaṇṭhas, I am able to, without moving my body or speaking a word, live for one day… two days… three days… four days… five days… six days… seven days experiencing pure happiness. What do you think, Nigaṇṭhas? This being so, who lives with more happiness – King Seniya Bimbisāra of Māgadha, or me?’ ‘This being so, Venerable Gotama lives with more happiness than King Seniya Bimbisāra of Māgadha.’”

This is what the Blessed One said. Satisfied, Mahānāma delighted in the Blessed One‘s speech.