mn.84 Majjhima Nikāya (Middle Discourses)

Thus have I heard: At one time the venerable Kaccāna the Great was staying near Madhurā in the Gundā Grove. Avantiputta, king of Madhurā, heard that the recluse Kaccāna was staying near Madhurā in the Gundā Grove and that of that revered Kaccāna a lovely report had gone forth thus: ‘He is clever, experienced, wise, one who has heard much, a brilliant speaker, of lovely intelligence, senior as well as being a perfected one. Good is the sight of perfected ones like this.’

Then Avantiputta, king of Madhurā, having had many splendid vehicles harnessed, having mounted a splendid vehicle, set out from Madhurā with the many splendid vehicles and with great royal pomp so as to see the venerable Kaccāna the Great. He went by vehicle as long as the ground was passable, then, having dismounted from the vehicle, he approached the venerable Kaccāna the Great on foot; having approached, he exchanged greetings with the venerable Kaccāna the Great; and having conversed in a friendly and courteous way, he sat down at a respectful distance.

As he was sitting down at a respectful distance, Avantiputta, king of Madhurā, spoke thus to the venerable Kaccāna the Great: “Good Kaccāna, brahmans speak thus: ‘Only brahmans form the best caste, all other castes are low; only brahmans form the fair caste, all other casts are dark; only brahmans are pure, not non-brahmans; brahmans are own sons of Brahmā, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, formed by Brahmā, heirs to Brahmā.’ What does the good Kaccāna say to this?” “Sire, this is merely a sound in the world, that: ‘Only brahmans form the best caste, all other castes are low; only brahmans form the fair caste, all other casts are dark; only brahmans are pure, not non-brahmans; brahmans are own sons of Brahmā, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, formed by Brahmā, heirs to Brahmā.’ This is a way in which it can be said, sire, that this is merely a sound in the world, that: ‘Only brahmans form the best caste, all other castes are low; only brahmans form the fair caste, all other casts are dark; only brahmans are pure, not non-brahmans; brahmans are own sons of Brahmā, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, formed by Brahmā, heirs to Brahmā.’

What do you think about this, sire? Even if a noble were to thrive in wealth or corn or gold or silver, could he have as his obedient servant another noble to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably, or could he have a brahman or could he have a merchant or could he have a worker to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably?” “Good Kaccāna, if a noble were to thrive in wealth or corn or gold or silver he could have as his obedient servant a noble to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably, or he could have a brahman, or he could have a merchant, or he could have a worker to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably.”

“What do you think about this, sire? Even if a brahman were to thrive in wealth or corn or gold or silver, could he have as his obedient servant another brahman to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably, or could he have a noble or could he have a merchant or could he have a worker to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably?” “Good Kaccāna, if a brahman were to thrive in wealth or corn or gold or silver, he could have as his obedient servant another brahman to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably, or he could have a noble or he could have a merchant or he could have a worker to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably.”

“What do you think about this, sire? Even if a merchant were to thrive in wealth or corn or gold or silver, could he have as his obedient servant another merchant to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably, or could he have a noble or could he have a brahman or could he have a worker to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably?” “Good Kaccāna, if a merchant were to thrive in wealth or corn or gold or silver, he could have as his obedient servant another merchant to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably, or he could have a noble or he could have a brahman or he could have a worker to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably.”

“What do you think about this, sire? Even if a worker were to thrive in wealth or corn or gold or silver, could he have as his obedient servant another worker to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably, or could he have a noble or could he have a brahman or could he have a merchant to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably?” “Good Kaccāna, if a worker were to thrive in wealth or corn or gold or silver, he could have as his obedient servant another worker to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably, or he could have a noble or he could have a brahman or he could have a merchant to get up earlier than he would, to go later to rest, carrying out his pleasure, speaking affably.”

“What do you think about this, sire? This being so, are these four castes exactly the same or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “Indeed, good Kaccāna, this being so, these four castes are exactly the same; I do not see any difference between them in this respect.” “This is a way in which it can be said, sire, that this is merely a sound in the world, that: ‘Only brahmans form the best caste, all other castes are low; only brahmans form the fair caste, all other casts are dark; only brahmans are pure, not non-brahmans; brahmans are own sons of Brahmā, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, formed by Brahmā, heirs to Brahmā.’

What do you think about this, sire? If a noble made onslaught on creatures here, took what had not been given, wrongly enjoyed pleasures of the senses, were a liar, of slanderous speech, of harsh speech, a gossip, covetous, malevolent in mind, of wrong view, would he at the breaking up of the body after dying arise in the sorrowful way, the bad bourn, the Downfall, Niraya Hell? Or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “If a noble, good Kaccāna, made onslaught on creatures, took what had not been given, wrongly enjoyed pleasures of the senses, were a liar, of slanderous speech, of harsh speech, a gossip, covetous, malevolent in mind, of wrong view, at the breaking up of the body after dying he would arise in the sorrowful way, the bad bourn, the Downfall, Niraya Hell. This is how it seems to me, and thus have I heard it from perfected ones.” “It is good, it is good, sire; it is good that it seems thus to you, sire, and it is good that you have heard this from perfected ones.

What do you think about this, sire? If a brahman made onslaught on creatures here, took what had not been given, wrongly enjoyed pleasures of the senses, were a liar, of slanderous speech, of harsh speech, a gossip, covetous, malevolent in mind, of wrong view, would he at the breaking up of the body after dying arise in the sorrowful way, the bad bourn, the Downfall, Niraya Hell? Or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “If a brahman, good Kaccāna, made onslaught on creatures, took what had not been given, wrongly enjoyed pleasures of the senses, were a liar, of slanderous speech, of harsh speech, a gossip, covetous, malevolent in mind, of wrong view, at the breaking up of the body after dying he would arise in the sorrowful way, the bad bourn, the Downfall, Niraya Hell. This is how it seems to me, and thus have I heard it from perfected ones.” “It is good, it is good, sire; it is good that it seems thus to you, sire, and it is good that you have heard this from perfected ones.

What do you think about this, sire? If a merchant made onslaught on creatures here, took what had not been given, wrongly enjoyed pleasures of the senses, were a liar, of slanderous speech, of harsh speech, a gossip, covetous, malevolent in mind, of wrong view, would he at the breaking up of the body after dying arise in the sorrowful way, the bad bourn, the Downfall, Niraya Hell? Or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “If a merchant, good Kaccāna, made onslaught on creatures, took what had not been given, wrongly enjoyed pleasures of the senses, were a liar, of slanderous speech, of harsh speech, a gossip, covetous, malevolent in mind, of wrong view, at the breaking up of the body after dying he would arise in the sorrowful way, the bad bourn, the Downfall, Niraya Hell. This is how it seems to me, and thus have I heard it from perfected ones.” “It is good, it is good, sire; it is good that it seems thus to you, sire, and it is good that you have heard this from perfected ones.

What do you think about this, sire? If a worker made onslaught on creatures here, took what had not been given, wrongly enjoyed pleasures of the senses, were a liar, of slanderous speech, of harsh speech, a gossip, covetous, malevolent in mind, of wrong view, would he at the breaking up of the body after dying arise in the sorrowful way, the bad bourn, the Downfall, Niraya Hell? Or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “If a worker, good Kaccāna, made onslaught on creatures, took what had not been given, wrongly enjoyed pleasures of the senses, were a liar, of slanderous speech, of harsh speech, a gossip, covetous, malevolent in mind, of wrong view, at the breaking up of the body after dying he would arise in the sorrowful way, the bad bourn, the Downfall, Niraya Hell. This is how it seems to me, and thus have I heard it from perfected ones.” “It is good, it is good, sire; it is good that it seems thus to you, sire, and it is good that you have heard this from perfected ones.

“What do you think about this, sire? This being so, are these four castes exactly the same or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “Indeed, good Kaccāna, this being so, these four castes are exactly the same; I do not see any difference between them in this respect.” “This is a way in which it can be said, sire, that this is merely a sound in the world, that: ‘Only brahmans form the best caste, all other castes are low; only brahmans form the fair caste, all other casts are dark; only brahmans are pure, not non-brahmans; brahmans are own sons of Brahmā, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, formed by Brahmā, heirs to Brahmā.’

What do you think about this, sire? If a noble refrained from onslaught on creatures here, from taking what had not been given, from wrong enjoyment of the sense-pleasures, from being a liar, from slanderous speech, from harsh speech, from being a gossip, were not covetous, were benevolent in mind and of right view, would he at the breaking up of the body after dying arise in a good bourn, a heaven world? Or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “If a noble, good Kaccāna, refrained from onslaught of creatures from taking what had not been given, from wrong enjoyment of the sense-pleasures, from being a liar, from slanderous speech, from harsh speech, from being a gossip, were not covetous, were benevolent in mind and of right view, at the breaking up of the body after dying he would arise in a good bourn, a heaven world. This is how it seems to me, and thus have I heard it from perfected ones.” “It is good, it is good, sire; it is good that it seems thus to you, sire, and it is good that you have heard this from perfected ones.

What do you think about this, sire? If a brahman refrained from onslaught on creatures here, from taking what had not been given, from wrong enjoyment of the sense-pleasures, from being a liar, from slanderous speech, from harsh speech, from being a gossip, were not covetous, were benevolent in mind and of right view, would he at the breaking up of the body after dying arise in a good bourn, a heaven world? Or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “If a brahman, good Kaccāna, refrained from onslaught of creatures from taking what had not been given, from wrong enjoyment of the sense-pleasures, from being a liar, from slanderous speech, from harsh speech, from being a gossip, were not covetous, were benevolent in mind and of right view, at the breaking up of the body after dying he would arise in a good bourn, a heaven world. This is how it seems to me, and thus have I heard it from perfected ones.” “It is good, it is good, sire; it is good that it seems thus to you, sire, and it is good that you have heard this from perfected ones.

What do you think about this, sire? If a merchant refrained from onslaught on creatures here, from taking what had not been given, from wrong enjoyment of the sense-pleasures, from being a liar, from slanderous speech, from harsh speech, from being a gossip, were not covetous, were benevolent in mind and of right view, would he at the breaking up of the body after dying arise in a good bourn, a heaven world? Or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “If a merchant, good Kaccāna, refrained from onslaught of creatures from taking what had not been given, from wrong enjoyment of the sense-pleasures, from being a liar, from slanderous speech, from harsh speech, from being a gossip, were not covetous, were benevolent in mind and of right view, at the breaking up of the body after dying he would arise in a good bourn, a heaven world. This is how it seems to me, and thus have I heard it from perfected ones.” “It is good, it is good, sire; it is good that it seems thus to you, sire, and it is good that you have heard this from perfected ones.

What do you think about this, sire? If a worker refrained from onslaught on creatures here, from taking what had not been given, from wrong enjoyment of the sense-pleasures, from being a liar, from slanderous speech, from harsh speech, from being a gossip, were not covetous, were benevolent in mind and of right view, would he at the breaking up of the body after dying arise in a good bourn, a heaven world? Or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “If a worker, good Kaccāna, refrained from onslaught of creatures from taking what had not been given, from wrong enjoyment of the sense-pleasures, from being a liar, from slanderous speech, from harsh speech, from being a gossip, were not covetous, were benevolent in mind and of right view, at the breaking up of the body after dying he would arise in a good bourn, a heaven world. This is how it seems to me, and thus have I heard it from perfected ones.” “It is good, it is good, sire; it is good that it seems thus to you, sire, and it is good that you have heard this from perfected ones.

“What do you think about this, sire? This being so, are these four castes exactly the same or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “Indeed, good Kaccāna, this being so, these four castes are exactly the same; I do not see any difference between them in this respect.” “This is a way in which it can be said, sire, that this is merely a sound in the world, that: ‘Only brahmans form the best caste, all other castes are low; only brahmans form the fair caste, all other casts are dark; only brahmans are pure, not non-brahmans; brahmans are own sons of Brahmā, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, formed by Brahmā, heirs to Brahmā.’

What do you think about this, sire? If a noble were to break into a house, or carry off loot, or commit a robbery, or make an ambush, or commit adultery, and if men who had captured him were to show him to you, and say: ‘This, your majesty, is the thief who is doing evil to you, decree what punishment you like for him’, what would you do to him?” “Good Kaccāna, we should kill him or ruin him or banish him or deal with him as we liked. What is the cause of this? Good Kaccāna, the designation of ‘noble’ that he once had has now disappeared for him, and he is reckoned simply as ‘thief.’”

What do you think about this, sire? If a brahman were to break into a house, or carry off loot, or commit a robbery, or make an ambush, or commit adultery, and if men who had captured him were to show him to you, and say: ‘This, your majesty, is the thief who is doing evil to you, decree what punishment you like for him’, what would you do to him?” “Good Kaccāna, we should kill him or ruin him or banish him or deal with him as we liked. What is the cause of this? Good Kaccāna, the designation of ‘brahman’ that he once had has now disappeared for him, and he is reckoned simply as ‘thief.’”

What do you think about this, sire? If a merchant were to break into a house, or carry off loot, or commit a robbery, or make an ambush, or commit adultery, and if men who had captured him were to show him to you, and say: ‘This, your majesty, is the thief who is doing evil to you, decree what punishment you like for him’, what would you do to him?” “Good Kaccāna, we should kill him or ruin him or banish him or deal with him as we liked. What is the cause of this? Good Kaccāna, the designation of ‘merchant’ that he once had has now disappeared for him, and he is reckoned simply as ‘thief.’”

What do you think about this, sire? If a worker were to break into a house, or carry off loot, or commit a robbery, or make an ambush, or commit adultery, and if men who had captured him were to show him to you, and say: ‘This, your majesty, is the thief who is doing evil to you, decree what punishment you like for him’, what would you do to him?” “Good Kaccāna, we should kill him or ruin him or banish him or deal with him as we liked. What is the cause of this? Good Kaccāna, the designation of ‘worker’ that he once had has now disappeared for him, and he is reckoned simply as ‘thief.’”

“What do you think about this, sire? This being so, are these four castes exactly the same or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “Indeed, good Kaccāna, this being so, these four castes are exactly the same; I do not see any difference between them in this respect.” “This is a way in which it can be said, sire, that this is merely a sound in the world, that: ‘Only brahmans form the best caste, all other castes are low; only brahmans form the fair caste, all other casts are dark; only brahmans are pure, not non-brahmans; brahmans are own sons of Brahmā, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, formed by Brahmā, heirs to Brahmā.’

What do you think about this, sire? If a noble, having cut off his hair and beard here, having donned saffron robes, should have gone forth from home into homelessness, and is one that refrains from onslaught on creatures, from taking what has not been given, from lying speech, is a one-meal-man, a Brahma-farer, virtuous, of lovely character, what would you do to him?” “Good Kaccāna, we should salute him or rise up before him or offer him a seat or invite him to the requisites of robe-material, almsfood, lodgings and medicines for the sick, or we should have proper watch and ward and guard provided for him. What is the cause of this? Good Kaccāna, the designation of ‘noble’ that he once had has now disappeared for him, and he is reckoned simply as ‘recluse.’”

What do you think about this, sire? If a brahman, having cut off his hair and beard here, having donned saffron robes, should have gone forth from home into homelessness, and is one that refrains from onslaught on creatures, from taking what has not been given, from lying speech, is a one-meal-man, a Brahma-farer, virtuous, of lovely character, what would you do to him?” “Good Kaccāna, we should salute him or rise up before him or offer him a seat or invite him to the requisites of robe-material, almsfood, lodgings and medicines for the sick, or we should have proper watch and ward and guard provided for him. What is the cause of this? Good Kaccāna, the designation of ‘brahman’ that he once had has now disappeared for him, and he is reckoned simply as ‘recluse.’”

What do you think about this, sire? If a merchant, having cut off his hair and beard here, having donned saffron robes, should have gone forth from home into homelessness, and is one that refrains from onslaught on creatures, from taking what has not been given, from lying speech, is a one-meal-man, a Brahma-farer, virtuous, of lovely character, what would you do to him?” “Good Kaccāna, we should salute him or rise up before him or offer him a seat or invite him to the requisites of robe-material, almsfood, lodgings and medicines for the sick, or we should have proper watch and ward and guard provided for him. What is the cause of this? Good Kaccāna, the designation of ‘merchant’ that he once had has now disappeared for him, and he is reckoned simply as ‘recluse.’”

What do you think about this, sire? If a worker, having cut off his hair and beard here, having donned saffron robes, should have gone forth from home into homelessness, and is one that refrains from onslaught on creatures, from taking what has not been given, from lying speech, is a one-meal-man, a Brahma-farer, virtuous, of lovely character, what would you do to him?” “Good Kaccāna, we should salute him or rise up before him or offer him a seat or invite him to the requisites of robe-material, almsfood, lodgings and medicines for the sick, or we should have proper watch and ward and guard provided for him. What is the cause of this? Good Kaccāna, the designation of ‘worker’ that he once had has now disappeared for him, and he is reckoned simply as ‘recluse.’”

“What do you think about this, sire? This being so, are these four castes exactly the same or not? Or how does this seem to you?” “Indeed, good Kaccāna, this being so, these four castes are exactly the same; I do not see any difference between them in this respect.” “This is a way in which it can be said, sire, that this is merely a sound in the world, that: ‘Only brahmans form the best caste, all other castes are low; only brahmans form the fair caste, all other casts are dark; only brahmans are pure, not non-brahmans; brahmans are own sons of Brahmā, born of his mouth, born of Brahmā, formed by Brahmā, heirs to Brahmā.’

When this had been said, Avantiputta, king of Madhurā, spoke thus to the venerable Kaccāna the Great: “Excellent, good Kaccāna, excellent, good Kaccāna. It is as if one might set upright what had been upset, or might disclose what was covered, or show the way to one who had gone astray, or bring an oil-lamp into the darkness so that those with vision might see material shapes, even so in many a figure has Dhamma been made clear by the good Kaccāna. Thus I am going to the revered Kaccāna for refuge and to Dhamma and to the Order of monks. May the good Kaccāna accept me as a lay-disciple going for refuge from today forth for as long as life lasts.”

“But do not you, sire, go for refuge to me. You must go for refuge only to that Lord to whom I have gone for refuge.” “But where, good Kaccāna, is this Lord staying now, perfected one, fully Self-Awakened One?” “Sire, this Lord, perfected one, fully Self-Awakened One, has now attained final nibbāna.” “Good Kaccāna, if we should hear that that Lord were ten… twenty thirty… forty… fifty yojana distant we should go the fifty yojana so as to see that Lord. And, good Kaccāna, even if we heard that the Lord were a hundred yojana distant, we should go the hundred yojana so as to see that Lord, perfected one, fully Self-Awakened One. But, good Kaccāna, since the Lord has attained final nibbāna, we are going for refuge to that Lord who has attained final nibbāna and to Dhamma and to the Order of monks. May the revered Kaccāna accept me as a lay-disciple going for refuge from today forth for as long as life lasts.”

Discourse at Madhurā: The Fourth

Thus have I heard. On one occasion Venerable Mahākaccāna was living at Madhura, in Gundā Forest. King Avantiputta of Madhura heard, “Apparently the contemplative Kaccāna is is living at Madhura, in Gundā Forest. A good report about Venerable Kaccāna has been spread around, saying ‘He is wise, accomplished, sagacious, well-learned, of beautiful speech, wonderfully eloquent, an elder, and an Arahant.’ It is good to see such Arahants.” Then King Avantiputta of Madhura had a number of high-quality vehicles prepared, got in one of them, and, together with that entourage of vehicles, set out for Madhura in full royal majesty to see Venerable Mahākaccāna. He went as far as he could go by vehicle, then disembarked, and approached Venerable Mahākaccāna on foot.

After approaching Venerable Mahākaccāna, he conversed with him, and when the appropriate polite conversation was finished, he sat to one side. When he was seated to one side, King Avantiputta of Madhura said to Venerable Mahākaccāna, “Sir Kaccāna, the Brahmins say, ‘Only the Brahmin is the best caste, the other castes are inferior; only the Brahmin is the light caste, the other castes are dark; only Brahmins become pure, not non-Brahmins; Brahmins are the sons of Brahma, born from his mouth, produced by Brahma, created by Brahma, the heirs of Brahma.’ What does Sir Kaccāna say about this?”

“Great King, this is just an opinion¹ in the world – ‘Only the Brahmin is the best caste… the heirs of Brahma.’ Great King, there is a way by which one can see it as just an opinion in the world – ‘Only the Brahmin is the best caste… the heirs of Brahma.’

“What do you think, Great King – if a khattiya² succeeds at acquiring wealth, grain, silver, and gold, will khattiyas get up before him, go to bed after him, agree to whatever he wants done, behave in a pleasing manner towards him, and speak affectionately to him? If an aristocrat succeeds at acquiring wealth, grain, silver, and gold, will brahmins³… vessas⁴… suddas⁵ get up before him, go to bed after him, agree to whatever he wants done, behave in a pleasing manner towards him, and speak affectionately to him?”

“Sir Kaccāna, if a khattiya succeeds at acquiring wealth, grain, silver, and gold, then khattiyas… brahmins… vessas… suddas will get up before him, go to bed after him, agree to whatever he wants done, behave in a pleasing manner towards him, and speak affectionately to him.”

“What do you think, Great King – if a brahmin… a vessa… a sudda succeeds at acquiring wealth, grain, silver, and gold, will khattiyas… brahmins… vessas… suddas get up before him, go to bed after him, agree to whatever he wants done, behave in a pleasing manner towards him, and speak affectionately to him?”

“Sir Kaccāna, if a brahmin… a vessa… a sudda succeeds at acquiring wealth, grain, silver, and gold, then khattiyas… brahmins… vessas… suddas will get up before him, go to bed after him, agree to whatever he wants done, behave in a pleasing manner towards him, and speak affectionately to him.”

“What do you think, Great King – if it is like this, aren‘t these four castes equal? Or how does it seem to you in this case?”

“Certainly, Sir Kaccāna, as it is like this, these four castes are equal. I do not see what would make them different in this case.”

“Great King, this is one way by which one can see it as just an opinion in the world – ‘Only the Brahmin is the best caste… the heirs of Brahma.’

“What do you think, Great King – if a khattiya… a brahmin… a vessa… a sudda kills, steals, commits sexual misconduct, tells lies, speaks maliciously, speaks harshly, chatters uselessly, is covetous, is aversive, and holds wrong view, then when he is separated from his body after death, will he reappear in a state of deprivation, a bad destination, in downfall, in hell? Or how does it seem to you in this case?”

“Kaccāna, if a khattiya… a brahmin… a vessa… a sudda kills, steals, commits sexual misconduct, tells lies, speaks maliciously, speaks harshly, chatters uselessly, is covetous, is aversive, and holds wrong view, then when he is separated from his body after death, he will reappear in a state of deprivation, a bad destination, in downfall, in hell. This is how it seems to me, and this is what I have heard from arahants.”

“Excellent, excellent, Great King! Great King, it is excellent that it seems that way to you, and it is excellent that you have heard this from arahants. What do you think, Great King – if it is like this, aren‘t these four castes equal? Or how does it seem to you in this case?”

“Certainly, Sir Kaccāna, as it is like this, these four castes are equal. I do not see what would make them different in this case.”

“Great King, this is another way by which one can see it as just an opinion in the world – ‘Only the Brahmin is the best caste… the heirs of Brahma.’

“What do you think, Great King – if a khattiya… a brahmin… a vessa… a sudda refrains from killing, refrains from stealing, refrains from sexual misconduct, refrains from telling lies, refrains from malicious speech, refrains from harsh speech, refrains from useless chatter, is not covetous, is not aversive, and holds right view, then when he is separated from his body after death, will he reappear in a good destination, in a heaven-world? Or how does it seem to you in this case?”

“Kaccāna, if a khattiya… a brahmin… a vessa… a sudda refrains from killing, refrains from stealing, refrains from sexual misconduct, refrains from telling lies, refrains from malicious speech, refrains from harsh speech, refrains from useless chatter, is not covetous, is not aversive, and holds right view, then when he is separated from his body after death, he will reappear in a good destination, in a heaven-world. This is how it seems to me, and this is what I have heard from arahants.”

“Excellent, excellent, Great King! Great King, it is excellent that it seems that way to you, and it is excellent that you have heard this from arahants. What do you think, Great King – if it is like this, aren‘t these four castes equal? Or how does it seem to you in this case?”

“Certainly, Sir Kaccāna, as it is like this, these four castes are equal. I do not see what would make them different in this case.”

“Great King, this is another way by which one can see it as just an opinion in the world – ‘Only the Brahmin is the best caste… the heirs of Brahma.’

“What do you think, Great King – if a khattiya… a brahmin… a vessa… a sudda commits thievery, larceny, burglary, robbery, or adultery, and people seize him and show him to you, saying ‘Lord⁶, this is a criminal, an outlaw. Punish him however you wish.’ What would you do?”

“Sir Kacccāna, I might have him executed, or imprisoned, or exiled, or whatever seemed appropriate. For what reason? Sir Kaccāna, although previously he was called a khattiya… a brahmin… a vessa… a sudda, that designation has now disappeared and he is just considered a criminal.”

“What do you think, Great King – if it is like this, aren‘t these four castes equal? Or how does it seem to you in this case?”

“Certainly, Sir Kaccāna, as it is like this, these four castes are equal. I do not see what would make them different in this case.”

“Great King, this is another way by which one can see it as just an opinion in the world – ‘Only the Brahmin is the best caste… the heirs of Brahma.’

“What do you think, Great King – if a khattiya… a brahmin… a vessa… a sudda cuts off his hair and beard, puts on brown robes, leaves behind the household life, becomes a homeless monastic, refrains from killing, refrains from stealing, refrains from telling lies, refrains from eating at night, eats only once a day, is celibate, moral, and wholesome? What would you do?”

“Sir Kaccāna, I would welcome him, I would rise up for him, I would invite him to sit, I would offer him robes, food, lodging, medicines, and medical supplies, and I would arrange protection and security for him. For what reason? Sir Kaccāna, although previously he was called a khattiya… a brahmin… a vessa… a sudda, that designation has now disappeared and he is just considered a contemplative.”

“What do you think, Great King – if it is like this, aren‘t these four castes equal? Or how does it seem to you in this case?”

“Certainly, Sir Kaccāna, as it is like this, these four castes are equal. I do not see what would make them different in this case.”

“Great King, this is another way by which one can see it as just an opinion in the world – ‘Only the Brahmin is the best caste… the heirs of Brahma.’”

When this was said, King Avantiputta of Madhura said to Venerable Mahākaccāna, “Wonderful, Sir Kaccāna! Wonderful, Sir Kaccāna. Sir Kaccāna, just as one might set upright what has been overturned, or reveal what has been concealed, or explain the path to one who is confused, or bring an oil-lamp into the darkness so those with eyes can see – in the same way, Sir Kaccāna has revealed the Dhamma in many ways. I go for refuge to Sir Kaccāna, and to the Dhamma, and to the monastic community. May Sir Kaccāna remember me as a disciple who has taken refuge for the rest of his life.”

“Great King, do not go to me for refuge. Go to the Blessed One for refuge, as I have.”

“Sir Kaccāna, where does the Blessed One live – the Arahant, the Fully Self-Enlightened One?”

“Great King, the Blessed One, the Arahant, the Fully Self-Enlightened one has attained Parinibbāna⁷.”

“Sir Kaccāna, even if we heard that the Blessed One was ten yojana⁸ away, then we would travel ten yojana to see the Blessed One, the Arahant, the Fully Self-Enlightened One. Sir Kaccāna, even if we heard that the Blessed One was twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, or a hundred yojana away, then we would travel a hundred yojana to see the Blessed One, the Arahant, the Fully Self-Enlightened One. However, Sir Kaccāna, since the Blessed One has attained Parinibbāna, then although he has attained Parinibbāna we go for refuge to the Blessed One, to the Dhamma, and to the monastic community. May Sir Kaccāna remember me as a disciple who has taken refuge for the rest of his life.”