snp.5.8 Suttanipata

The Questions of Nanda

“People say there are sages in the world,”
said Venerable Nanda,
“but how is this the case?
Is someone called a sage because of their knowledge,
or because of their way of life?”
“Experts do not speak of a sage in terms of
view, learning, or knowledge.
Those who are sages live far from the crowd, I say,
untroubled, with no need for hope.”
“As to those ascetics and brahmins,”
said Venerable Nanda,
“who speak of purity in terms of what is seen or heard,
or in terms of precepts and vows,
or in terms of countless different things.
Living self-controlled in that matter,
have they crossed over rebirth and old age, good sir?
I ask you, Blessed One; please tell me this.”
“As to those ascetics and brahmins,”
replied the Buddha,
“who speak of purity in terms of what is seen or heard,
or in terms of precepts and vows,
or in terms of countless different things.
Even though they live self-controlled in that matter,
they’ve not crossed over rebirth and old age, I declare.”
“As to those ascetics and brahmins,”
said Venerable Nanda,
“who speak of purity in terms of what is seen or heard,
or in terms of precepts and vows,
or in terms of countless different things.
You say they have not crossed the flood, sage.
Then who exactly in the world of gods and humans
has crossed over rebirth and old age, good sir?
I ask you, Blessed One; please tell me this.”
“I don’t say that all ascetics and brahmins,”
replied the Buddha,
“are shrouded by rebirth and old age.
There are those here who have given up all
that is seen, heard, and thought, and precepts and vows,
who have given up all the countless different things.
Fully understanding craving, free of defilements,
those people, I say, have crossed the flood.”
“I rejoice in the words of the great hermit!
You have expounded non-attachment well, Gotama.
There are those here who have given up all
that is seen, heard, and thought, and precepts and vows,
who have given up all the countless different things.
Fully understanding craving, free of defilements,
those people, I agree, have crossed the flood.”