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mn.67 Majjhima Nikāya (Middle Discourses)

Discourse at Cātumā

Thus have I heard: At one time the Lord was staying near Cātumā in the Myrobalan Grove. Now at that time at least five hundred monks, with Sāriputta and Moggallāna at their head had arrived at Cātumā to see the Lord, and there was a loud noise, a great noise as these incoming monks were exchanging greetings with the resident monks, while lodgings were being prepared and bowls and robes were being put away.

Then the Lord addressed the venerable Ānanda, saying: “What, Ānanda, is this loud noise, this great noise, which seems like that of fisherfolk when hauling in a catch?” “Revered sir, these monks, at least five hundred, with Sāriputta and Moggallāna at their head, have arrived at Cātumā to see the Lord, and while the incoming monks are exchanging greetings with the resident monks, while lodgings are being prepared and bowls and robes are being put away, there is a loud noise, a great noise.” “Well then, Ānanda, in my name summon these monks, saying: ‘The Teacher is summoning the venerable ones.’” “Yes, revered sir," and the venerable Ānanda, having answered the Lord in assent, approached these monks; having approached, he spoke thus to these monks: “The Teacher is summoning the venerable ones.” “Yes, your reverence," and these monks, having answered the venerable Ānanda in assent, approached the Lord; having approached, having greeted the Lord, they sat down at a respectful distance.

The Lord spoke thus to these monks as they were sitting down at a respectful distance: “Do not you, monks, think that the loud noise, the great noise is like that of fisherfolk when hauling in a catch?” “Revered sir, at least five hundred monks with Sāriputta and Moggallāna at their head have arrived at Cātumā to see the Lord, and while the incoming monks are exchanging greetings with the resident monks, while lodgings are being prepared and bowls and robes are being put away, there is a loud noise, a great noise.” “Go away, monks, I dismiss you, you should not stay near me.” “Very well, revered sir," and these monks having answered the Lord in assent, having greeted the Lord keeping their right sides towards him, having packed away their lodgings, departed taking their bowls and robes.

Now at that time the Sakyans of Cātumā were assembled in the conference hall on some business or other. The Sakyans of Cātumā saw these monks coming in the distance; having seen them, they approached these monks; having approached, they spoke thus to these monks: “Now, where are you, venerable ones, going?” “Friends, the Order of monks has been dismissed by the Lord.” “Well then, venerable ones, sit down for a moment; perhaps we could reconcile the Lord.” “Very well, friends," these monks answered the Sakyans of Cātumā in assent.

Then the Sakyans of Cātumā approached the Lord; having approached, having greeted the Lord, they sat down at a respectful distance. As they were sitting down at a respectful distance, the Sakyans of Cātumā spoke thus to the Lord: “Revered sir, let the Lord rejoice the Order of monks, let the Lord greet the Order of monks. Revered sir, even as the Order of monks was helped previously by the Lord, so let the Lord help the Order of monks now. There are here, revered sir, new monks, not long gone forth, quite recently come into this Dhamma and Discipline. Not getting a chance to see the Lord, there may be faltering for them, there may be vicissitudes. Even, revered sir, as there may be faltering and vicissitudes for young seeds if they do not get water, even so, revered sir, there are here new monks, not long gone forth, quite recently come into this Dhamma and discipline; if they do not get a chance to see the Lord, there may be faltering for them, there may be vicissitudes. And even, revered sir, as there may be faltering, as there may be vicissitudes for a young calf that does not see its mother, so, revered sir, there are here new monks, not long gone forth, quite recently come into this Dhamma and discipline. Not seeing the Lord, there may be faltering for them, there may be vicissitudes. Revered sir, let the Lord rejoice the Order of monks, let the Lord greet the Order of monks. Revered sir, even as the Order of monks was helped previously by the Lord, so let the Lord help the Order of monks now.”

Then Brahmā Sahampati, knowing by mind the reasoning in the Lord's mind, as a strong man might stretch forth his bent arm or might bend back his outstretched arm, even so, vanishing from the Brahma-world he appeared before the Lord. Then Brahmā Sahampati, arranging his outer robe over one shoulder, saluting the Lord with joined palms, spoke thus to the Lord: “Revered sir, let the Lord rejoice the Order of monks, let the Lord greet the Order of monks. Revered sir, even as the Order of monks was helped previously by the Lord, so let the Lord help the Order of monks now. There are here, revered sir, new monks, not long gone forth, quite recently come into this Dhamma and Discipline. Not getting a chance to see the Lord, there may be faltering for them, there may be vicissitudes. Even, revered sir, as there may be faltering and vicissitudes for young seeds, if they do not get water, even so, revered sir, there are here new monks, not long gone forth, quite recently come into this Dhamma and discipline; if they do not get a chance to see the Lord, there may be faltering for them, there may be vicissitudes. And even, revered sir, as there may be faltering, as there may be vicissitudes for a young calf that does not see its mother, so, revered sir, there are here new monks, not long gone forth, quite recently come into this Dhamma and discipline. Not seeing the Lord, there may be faltering for them, there may be vicissitudes. Revered sir, let the Lord rejoice the Order of monks, let the Lord greet the Order of monks. Revered sir, even as the Order of monks was helped previously by the Lord, so let the Lord help the Order of monks now.”

The Sakyans of Cātumā and Brahmā Sahampati were able to reconcile the Lord by the analogy of the seeds and the analogy of the young (calf). Then the venerable Moggallāna the Great addressed the monks, saying: “Arise, your reverences, pick up your bowls and robes, the Lord has been reconciled by the Sakyans of Cātumā and by Brahmā Sahampati with the analogy of the seeds and the analogy of the young (calf).” “Yes, your reverence," and these monks, having answered the venerable Moggallāna the Great in assent, rising from their seats, taking their bowls and robes, approached the Lord; having approached, having greeted the Lord, they sat down at a respectful distance.

The Lord spoke thus to the venerable Sāriputta as he was sitting down at a respectful distance: “What did you, Sāriputta, think when the Older of monks was dismissed by me?” “When the Order of monks was dismissed by the Lord, I, revered sir, thought: ‘The Lord is now unconcerned, he will abide intent on abiding in ease here and now. We too, unconcerned now, will abide intent on abiding in ease here and now.’” “Do you wait, Sāriputta, do you wait, Sāriputta. Sāriputta, never let such a thought arise in you again.”

Then the Lord addressed the venerable Moggallāna the Great, saying: “What did you, Moggallāna, think when the Order of monks was dismissed by me?” “When the Order of monks was dismissed by the Lord, I, revered sir, thought: ‘The Lord is now unconcerned, he will abide intent on abiding in ease here and now, I and the venerable Sāriputta will now lead the Order of monks.’” “It is good, Moggallāna, it is good. For either I, Moggallāna, could lead the Order of monks, or Sāriputta and Moggallāna.”

Then the Lord addressed the Order of monks, saying: “Monks, these four perils for one going down to the water are to be expected. What four?

Peril of waves, peril of crocodiles, peril of whirlpools, peril of fierce fishes. These are the four perils to be expected for one going down to the water. Similarly, monks, four perils are to be expected for some persons here who have gone forth from home into homelessness in this Dhamma and Discipline. What four? Peril of waves, peril of crocodiles, peril of whirlpools, peril of fierce fishes.

[1] And what, monks, is the peril of waves? Here, monks, some young man of family, gone forth from home into homelessness through faith, thinks: ‘Although I am oppressed by birth, ageing, dying, by grief, sorrow, suffering, lamentation and despair, oppressed by anguish, overcome by anguish, yet perhaps some ending of this whole mass of anguish may be seen.’ His fellow Brahma-farers exhort and instruct him who has thus gone forth: ‘Thus should you go out, thus should you return, thus should you look in front, thus should you look round, thus should you bend out (your arm), thus should you bend it back, thus should you carry your outer cloak, your bowl and robe.’ If it occurs to him: ‘While I was formerly in the household state, we used to exhort and instruct others, but these who seem like our sons, who seem like our grandsons, think that they should exhort and instruct us’—then, disavowing the training, he returns to the low life of the world. This one, monks, who disavows the training and returns to the low life of the world is called one who is scared by the peril of waves. ‘The peril of waves,’ monks, is a synonym for angry wrath.

[2] And what, monks, is the peril of crocodiles? Here, monks, some young man of family who has gone forth from home into homelessness through faith, thinks: ‘Although I am oppressed by birth, ageing, dying, by grief, sorrow, suffering, lamentation and despair, oppressed by anguish, overcome by anguish, yet perhaps some ending of this whole mass of anguish may be seen.’ His fellow Brahma-farers exhort and instruct him who has thus gone forth: ‘This can be eaten by you, this cannot be eaten by you, this can be partaken of by you, this cannot be partaken of by you, this can be savoured by you, this cannot be savoured by you, this can be drunk by you, this cannot be drunk by you; you should eat what is allowable, you should not eat what is not allowable, you should partake of what is allowable, you should not partake of what is not allowable, you should savour what is allowable, you should not savour what is not allowable, you should drink what is allowable, you should not drink what is not allowable; you should eat at the right time, you should not eat at the wrong time, you should partake of at the right time, you should not partake of at the wrong time, you should savour at the right time, you should not savour at the wrong time, you should drink at the right time, you should not drink at the wrong time.’ If it occurs to him ‘Formerly when I was in the household state we ate what we liked, we did not eat what we did not like, we partook of what we liked, we did not partake of what we did not like, we savoured what we liked, we did not savour what we did not like, we drank what we liked, we did not drink what we did not like; we ate what was allowable and we ate what was not allowable, we partook of what was allowable and we partook of what was not allowable, we savoured what was allowable and we savoured what was not allowable, we drank what was allowable and we drank what was not allowable; we ate at the right time and we ate at the wrong time, we partook of at the right time and we partook of at the wrong time, we savoured at the right time and we savoured at the wrong time, we drank at the right time and we drank at the wrong time. But when those householders who have faith give us sumptuous foods, solid and soft, at a wrong time, during the day, it seems as if they are putting restraint over the mouth’—and disavowing the training, he returns to the low life of the world. This one, monks, who disavowing the training, returns to the low life of the world, is called one who is scared by the peril of crocodiles. ‘The peril of crocodiles,’ monks, is a synonym for gluttony.

[3] And what, monks, is the peril of whirlpools? Here, monks, some young man of family who has gone forth from home into homelessness through faith, thinks: ‘I am oppressed by birth, ageing, dying, by grief, sorrow, suffering, lamentation and despair, oppressed by anguish, overcome by anguish, yet perhaps some ending of this whole mass of anguish may be seen.’ He, gone forth thus, having dressed in the morning, taking his bowl and robe, enters a village or market town for almsfood unguarded as to his body, unguarded as to his speech, mindfulness not set up, the sense-organs uncontrolled. He there sees a householder or a householder's son indulging in and provided with the five strands of sense-pleasures, and finding delight in them. If it occurs to him; ‘Formerly while we were in the household state, indulging in and provided with the five strands of sense-pleasures, we found delight in them. As there is wealth in my home, it is possible both to enjoy wealth and to do meritorious things,’ he, disavowing the training, returns to the low life of the world. This one, monks who, disavowing the training, returns to the low life of the world, is called one who is scared of the peril of whirlpools. ‘The peril of whirlpools,’ monks, is a synonym for the five strands of sense-pleasures.

[4] And what, monks, is the peril of fierce fishes? Here, monks, some young man of family who has gone forth from home into homelessness through faith, thinks: ‘I am oppressed by birth, ageing, dying, by grief, sorrow, suffering, lamentation and despair, oppressed by anguish, overcome by anguish, yet perhaps some ending of this whole mass of anguish may be seen.’ He, gone forth thus, having dressed in the morning, taking his bowl and robe, enters a village or a market town for almsfood unguarded in his body, unguarded in his speech, mindfulness not set up, the sense-organs uncontrolled. He sees a woman there who is improperly dressed or improperly clothed. When he has seen that woman who is improperly dressed or improperly clothed, passion corrupts his mind, and with his mind corrupted by passion, disavowing the training he returns to the low life of the world. This one, monks, who disavowing the training, returns to the low life of the world, is called one who is scared by the peril of fierce fishes. ‘The peril of fierce fishes,’ monks, is a synonym for women.

These monks, are the four perils to be expected for some persons here who have gone forth from home into homelessness in this Dhamma and Discipline.”

Thus spoke the Lord. Delighted, these monks rejoiced in what the Lord had said.

Discourse at Cātumā: The Seventh

- Translator: I.B. Horner

- Editor: Brother Joe Smith


At Cātumā

So I have heard.
At one time the Buddha was staying near Cātumā in a myrobalan grove.
Now at that time around five hundred mendicants headed by Sāriputta and Moggallāna arrived at Cātumā to see the Buddha.
And the visiting mendicants, while exchanging pleasantries with the resident mendicants, preparing their lodgings, and putting away their bowls and robes, made a dreadful racket.
Then the Buddha said to Venerable Ānanda,
“Ānanda, who’s making that dreadful racket? You’d think it was fishermen hauling in a catch!”
And Ānanda told him what had happened.

“Well then, Ānanda, in my name tell those mendicants that
the teacher summons them.”
“Yes, sir,” Ānanda replied. He went to those mendicants and said,
“Venerables, the teacher summons you.”
“Yes, reverend,” replied those mendicants. Then they rose from their seats and went to the Buddha, bowed, and sat down to one side. The Buddha said to them:
“Mendicants, what’s with that dreadful racket? You’d think it was fishermen hauling in a catch!”
And they told him what had happened.

“Go away, mendicants, I dismiss you. You are not to stay in my presence.”
“Yes, sir,” replied those mendicants. They got up from their seats, bowed, and respectfully circled the Buddha, keeping him on their right. They set their lodgings in order and left, taking their bowls and robes.
Now at that time the Sakyans of Cātumā were sitting together at the town hall on some business.
Seeing those mendicants coming off in the distance,
they went up to them and said,
“Hello venerables, where are you going?”
“Sirs, the mendicant Saṅgha has been dismissed by the Buddha.”
“Well then, venerables, sit here for a minute. Hopefully we’ll be able to restore the Buddha’s confidence.”
“Yes, sirs,” replied the mendicants.
Then the Sakyans of Cātumā went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him:
“May the Buddha approve of the mendicant Saṅgha!
May the Buddha welcome the mendicant Saṅgha!
May the Buddha support the mendicant Saṅgha now as he did in the past!
There are mendicants here who are junior, recently gone forth, newly come to this teaching and training.
If they don’t get to see the Buddha they may change and fall apart.
If young seedlings don’t get water they may change and fall apart.
In the same way, there are mendicants here who are junior, recently gone forth, newly come to this teaching and training. If they don’t get to see the Buddha they may change and fall apart.
If a young calf doesn’t see its mother it may change and fall apart.
In the same way, there are mendicants here who are junior, recently gone forth, newly come to this teaching and training. If they don’t get to see the Buddha they may change and fall apart.
May the Buddha approve of the mendicant Saṅgha!
May the Buddha welcome the mendicant Saṅgha!
May the Buddha support the mendicant Saṅgha now as he did in the past!”
Then Brahmā Sahampati knew what the Buddha was thinking. As easily as a strong person would extend or contract their arm, he vanished from the Brahmā realm and reappeared in front of the Buddha.
He arranged his robe over one shoulder, raised his joined palms toward the Buddha, and said:
“May the Buddha approve of the mendicant Saṅgha!
May the Buddha welcome the mendicant Saṅgha!
May the Buddha support the mendicant Saṅgha now as he did in the past!
There are mendicants here who are junior, recently gone forth, newly come to this teaching and training. If they don’t get to see the Buddha they may change and fall apart.
If young seedlings don’t get water they may change and fall apart. …

If a young calf doesn’t see its mother it may change and fall apart.
In the same way, there are mendicants here who are junior, recently gone forth, newly come to this teaching and training. If they don’t get to see the Buddha they may change and fall apart.
May the Buddha approve of the mendicant Saṅgha!
May the Buddha welcome the mendicant Saṅgha!
May the Buddha support the mendicant Saṅgha now as he did in the past!”
The Sakyans of Cātumā and Brahmā Sahampati were able to restore the Buddha’s confidence with the similes of the seedlings and the calf.
Then Venerable Mahāmoggallāna addressed the mendicants,
“Get up, reverends, and pick up your bowls and robes.
The Buddha’s confidence has been restored by the Sakyans of Cātumā and Brahmā Sahampati with the similes of the seedlings and the calf.”
“Yes, reverend,” replied those mendicants. Then they rose from their seats and, taking their bowls and robes, went to the Buddha, bowed, and sat down to one side. The Buddha said to Venerable Sāriputta,
“Sāriputta, what did you think when the mendicant Saṅgha was dismissed by me?”
“Sir, I thought this:
‘The Buddha has dismissed the mendicant Saṅgha.
Now he will remain passive, dwelling in blissful meditation in the present life, and so will we.’”
“Hold on, Sāriputta, hold on! Don’t you ever think such a thing again!”
Then the Buddha addressed Venerable Mahāmoggallāna,
“Moggallāna, what did you think when the mendicant Saṅgha was dismissed by me?”
“Sir, I thought this:
‘The Buddha has dismissed the mendicant Saṅgha.
Now he will remain passive, dwelling in blissful meditation in the present life. Meanwhile, Venerable Sāriputta and I will lead the mendicant Saṅgha.’”
“Good, good, Moggallāna!
For either I should lead the mendicant Saṅgha, or else Sāriputta and Moggallāna.”
Then the Buddha said to the mendicants:
“Mendicants, when you go into the water you should anticipate four dangers.
What four?
The dangers of waves, marsh crocodiles, whirlpools, and gharials.
These are the four dangers that anyone who enters the water should anticipate.
In the same way, a gentleman who goes forth from the lay life to homelessness in this teaching and training should anticipate four dangers.
What four?
The dangers of waves, marsh crocodiles, whirlpools, and gharials.
And what, mendicants, is the danger of waves?
It’s when a gentleman has gone forth from the lay life to homelessness, thinking:
‘I’m swamped by rebirth, old age, and death; by sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. I’m swamped by suffering, mired in suffering.
Hopefully I can find an end to this entire mass of suffering.’
When they’ve gone forth, their spiritual companions advise and instruct them:
‘You should go out like this, and come back like that. You should look to the front like this, and to the side like that. You should contract your limbs like this, and extend them like that. This is how you should bear your outer robe, bowl, and robes.’
They think:
‘Formerly, as laypeople, we advised and instructed others.
And now these mendicants—who you’d think were our children or grandchildren—imagine they can advise and instruct us!’
They resign the training and return to a lesser life.
This is called one who resigns the training and returns to a lesser life because they’re afraid of the danger of waves.
‘Danger of waves’ is a term for anger and distress.
And what, mendicants, is the danger of marsh crocodiles?
It’s when a gentleman has gone forth from the lay life to homelessness, thinking:
‘I’m swamped by rebirth, old age, and death; by sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. I’m swamped by suffering, mired in suffering.
Hopefully I can find an end to this entire mass of suffering.’
When they’ve gone forth, their spiritual companions advise and instruct them:
‘You may eat, consume, taste, and drink these things, but not those. You may eat what’s allowable, but not what’s unallowable. You may eat at the right time, but not at the wrong time.’
They think: ‘Formerly, as laypeople, we used to eat, consume, taste, and drink what we wanted, not what we didn’t want.
We ate and drank both allowable and unallowable things, at the right time and the wrong time.
And these faithful householders give us a variety of delicious foods at the wrong time of day. But these mendicants imagine they can gag our mouths!’
They resign the training and return to a lesser life.
This is called one who resigns the training and returns to a lesser life because they’re afraid of the danger of marsh crocodiles.
‘Danger of marsh crocodiles’ is a term for gluttony.
And what, mendicants, is the danger of whirlpools?
It’s when a gentleman has gone forth from the lay life to homelessness, thinking:
‘I’m swamped by rebirth, old age, and death; by sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. I’m swamped by suffering, mired in suffering.
Hopefully I can find an end to this entire mass of suffering.’
When they’ve gone forth, they robe up in the morning and, taking their bowl and robe, enter a village or town for alms without guarding body, speech, and mind, without establishing mindfulness, and without restraining the sense faculties.
There they see a householder or their child amusing themselves, supplied and provided with the five kinds of sensual stimulation.
They think:
‘Formerly, as laypeople, we amused ourselves, supplied and provided with the five kinds of sensual stimulation.
And it’s true that my family is wealthy.
I can both enjoy my wealth and make merit.’
They resign the training and return to a lesser life.
This is called one who resigns the training and returns to a lesser life because they’re afraid of the danger of whirlpools.
‘Danger of whirlpools’ is a term for the five kinds of sensual stimulation.
And what, mendicants, is the danger of gharials?
It’s when a gentleman has gone forth from the lay life to homelessness, thinking:
‘I’m swamped by rebirth, old age, and death; by sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress. I’m swamped by suffering, mired in suffering.
Hopefully I can find an end to this entire mass of suffering.’
When they’ve gone forth, they robe up in the morning and, taking their bowl and robe, enter a village or town for alms without guarding body, speech, and mind, without establishing mindfulness, and without restraining the sense faculties.
There they see a female scantily clad, with revealing clothes.
Lust infects their mind,
so they resign the training and return to a lesser life.
This is called one who resigns the training and returns to a lesser life because they’re afraid of the danger of gharials.
‘Danger of gharials’ is a term for females.
These are the four dangers that a gentleman who goes forth from the lay life to homelessness in this teaching and training should anticipate.”
That is what the Buddha said.
Satisfied, the mendicants were happy with what the Buddha said.