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sn.12.67 Saṁyutta Nikāya (Linked Discourses)

The Sheaves of Reeds

On one occasion the Venerable Sāriputta and the Venerable Mahakoṭṭhita were dwelling at Baraṇasī in the Deer Park at Isipatana. Then, in the evening, the Venerable Mahakoṭṭhita emerged from seclusion and approached the Venerable Sāriputta. He exchanged greetings with the Venerable Sāriputta and, when they had concluded their greetings and cordial talk, he sat down to one side and said to him:

“How is it, friend Sāriputta: Is aging-and-death created by oneself, or is it created by another, or is it created both by oneself and by another, or has it arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another?”

“Friend Koṭṭhita, aging-and-death is not created by oneself, nor is it created by another, nor is it created both by oneself and by another, nor has it arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another. But rather, with birth as condition, aging-and-death comes to be.”

“How is it, friend Sāriputta: Is birth created by oneself … Is existence … clinging … craving … feeling … contact … the six sense bases … name-and-form created by oneself, or is it created by another, or is it created both by oneself and by another, or has it arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another?”

“Name-and-form, friend Koṭṭhita, is not created by oneself, nor is it created by another, nor is it created both by oneself and by another, nor has it arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another; but rather, with consciousness as condition, name-and-form comes to be.”

“How is it, friend Sāriputta: Is consciousness created by oneself, or is it created by another, or is it created both by oneself and by another, or has it arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another?”

“Consciousness, friend Koṭṭhita, is not created by oneself, nor is it created by another, nor is it created both by oneself and by another, nor has it arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another; but rather, with name-and-form as condition, consciousness comes to be.”

“Now we understand the Venerable Sāriputta’s statement thus: ‘Name-and-form, friend Koṭṭhita, is not created by oneself … but rather, with consciousness as condition, name-and-form comes to be.’ Now we also understand the Venerable Sāriputta’s other statement thus: ‘Consciousness, friend Koṭṭhita, is not created by oneself … but rather, with name-and-form as condition, consciousness comes to be.’ But how, friend Sāriputta, should the meaning of this statement be seen?”

“Well then, friend, I will make up a simile for you, for some intelligent people here understand the meaning of a statement by means of a simile. Just as two sheaves of reeds might stand leaning against each other, so too, with name-and-form as condition, consciousness comes to be; with consciousness as condition, name-and-form comes to be. With name-and-form as condition, the six sense bases come to be; with the six sense bases as condition, contact…. Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering.

“If, friend, one were to remove one of those sheaves of reeds, the other would fall, and if one were to remove the other sheaf, the first would fall. So too, with the cessation of name-and-form comes cessation of consciousness; with the cessation of consciousness comes cessation of name-and-form. With the cessation of name-and-form comes cessation of the six sense bases; with the cessation of the six sense bases, cessation of contact…. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.”

“It is wonderful, friend Sāriputta! It is amazing, friend Sāriputta! How well this has been stated by the Venerable Sāriputta. We rejoice in the Venerable Sāriputta’s statement on these thirty-six grounds: If, friend, a bhikkhu teaches the Dhamma for the purpose of revulsion towards aging-and-death, for its fading away and cessation, he can be called a bhikkhu who is a speaker on the Dhamma. If a bhikkhu is practising for the purpose of revulsion towards aging-and-death, for its fading away and cessation, he can be called a bhikkhu who is practising in accordance with the Dhamma. If through revulsion towards aging-and-death, through its fading away and cessation, a bhikkhu is liberated by nonclinging, he can be called a bhikkhu who has attained Nibbāna in this very life.

“If, friend, a bhikkhu teaches the Dhamma for the purpose of revulsion towards birth … existence … clinging … craving … feeling … contact … the six sense bases … name-and-form … consciousness … volitional formations … ignorance, for its fading away and cessation, he can be called a bhikkhu who is a speaker on the Dhamma. If a bhikkhu is practising for the purpose of revulsion towards ignorance, for its fading away and cessation, he can be called a bhikkhu who is practising in accordance with the Dhamma. If through revulsion towards ignorance, through its fading away and cessation, a bhikkhu is liberated by nonclinging, he can be called a bhikkhu who has attained Nibbāna in this very life.”

- Translator: Bhikkhu Bodhi

- Editor: Blake Walsh


Bundles of Reeds

At one time Venerable Sāriputta and Venerable Mahākoṭṭhita were staying near Benares, in the deer park at Isipatana.
Then in the late afternoon, Venerable Mahākoṭṭhita came out of retreat, went to Venerable Sāriputta, and exchanged greetings with him.
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to Sāriputta:
“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, are old age and death made by oneself? Or by another? Or by both oneself and another? Or do they arise by chance, not made by oneself or another?”
“No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, old age and death are not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor do they arise by chance, not made by oneself or another.
Rather, rebirth is a condition for old age and death.”
“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, is rebirth made by oneself? Or by another? Or by both oneself and another? Or does it arise by chance, not made by oneself or another?”
“No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, rebirth is not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor does it arise by chance, not made by oneself or another.
Rather, continued existence is a condition for rebirth.”
“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, is continued existence made by oneself? …” …
“Is grasping made by oneself? …” …
“Is craving made by oneself? …” …
“Is feeling made by oneself? …” …
“Is contact made by oneself? …” …
“Are the six sense fields made by oneself? …” …
“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, are name and form made by oneself? Or by another? Or by both oneself and another? Or do they arise by chance, not made by oneself or another?”
“No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, name and form are not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor do they arise by chance, not made by oneself or another.
Rather, consciousness is a condition for name and form.”
“Well, Reverend Sāriputta, is consciousness made by oneself? Or by another? Or by both oneself and another? Or does it arise by chance, not made by oneself or another?”
“No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, consciousness is not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor does it arise by chance, not made by oneself or another.
Rather, name and form are conditions for consciousness.”
“Just now I understood you to say:
‘No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, name and form are not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor do they arise by chance, not made by oneself or another.
Rather, consciousness is a condition for name and form.’
But I also understood you to say:
‘No, Reverend Koṭṭhita, consciousness is not made by oneself, nor by another, nor by both oneself and another, nor does it arise by chance, not made by oneself or another.
Rather, name and form are conditions for consciousness.’
How then should we see the meaning of this statement?”
“Well then, reverend, I shall give you a simile.
For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said.
Suppose there were two bundles of reeds leaning up against each other.
In the same way, name and form are conditions for consciousness.
Consciousness is a condition for name and form.
Name and form are conditions for the six sense fields.
The six sense fields are conditions for contact. …
That is how this entire mass of suffering originates.
If the first of those bundles of reeds were to be pulled away, the other would collapse.
And if the other were to be pulled away, the first would collapse.
In the same way, when name and form cease, consciousness ceases.
When consciousness ceases, name and form cease.
When name and form cease, the six sense fields cease.
When the six sense fields cease, contact ceases. …
That is how this entire mass of suffering ceases.”
“It’s incredible, Reverend Sāriputta, it’s amazing!

How well spoken this was by Venerable Sāriputta!
And we can express our agreement with Venerable Sāriputta’s statement on these thirty-six grounds.
If a mendicant teaches Dhamma for disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding old age and death, they’re qualified to be called a ‘mendicant who speaks on Dhamma’.
If they practice for disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding old age and death, they’re qualified to be called a ‘mendicant who practices in line with the teaching’.
If they’re freed by not grasping by disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding old age and death, they’re qualified to be called a ‘mendicant who has attained extinguishment in this very life’.
If a mendicant teaches Dhamma for disillusionment regarding rebirth …
continued existence …
grasping …
craving …
feeling …
contact …
the six sense fields …
name and form …
consciousness …
choices …
If a mendicant teaches Dhamma for disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding ignorance, they’re qualified to be called a ‘mendicant who speaks on Dhamma’.
If they practice for disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding ignorance, they’re qualified to be called a ‘mendicant who practices in line with the teaching’.
If they’re freed by not grasping by disillusionment, dispassion, and cessation regarding ignorance, they’re qualified to be called a ‘mendicant who has attained extinguishment in this very life’.”