They say: “In our Dharma purity’s found”
but deny that it is found in the Dharma of others.
On what they depend they say “it’s the best”,
and so settle down in their individual truths.Those disputants into the assembly rush,
and perceive opposedly “the other” as a fool.
But in disputes, on others they rely—
these so-called experts ever-loving praise.Engrossed in conflict midst the assembly,
fearing defeat, they wish only for praise,
having been refuted, that one’s truly confused,
angry at blame seeks weakness in the other.“Through investigation is your argument
refuted and destroyed”—so they say.
That one grieves and laments—that mere arguer,
“Oh! I am overcome” that person wails.Arisen among monks—those controversies
among them cause both elation and depression.
Refrain therefore, from disputation!
No meaning’s in it save the prize of praise.Praised in the midst of the assembly
for the presentation of arguments,
then that one laughs, or else is haughty.
So they say, “Conceited by winning debate”.Though haughtiness will be ground for a downfall,
still proudly that one speaks, and with arrogance:
this having seen, refrain from disputations—
not by that is there purity, so the skilled say.Just as a strong man, fed
upon royal food, might roar forth,
wishing for a champion rival,
but finds from the first there’s nought to fight.Those holding a view and disputing, say thus:
“This alone is the truth”, so they aver;
then reply to them: “But no one’s here
to retaliate through disputation”.They continue with their practice, offering no opposition
against others, offering no view opposed to view.
But then, Pasūra, what would you obtain?
For them there is nothing to be grasped as the highest.As you’ve come here, in your mind
thinking and speculating on various views,
you have met with a Washed One
But will not be able to make progress with him.
snp.4.8 Suttanipata
Being Overbold, the Disadvantages of Debate
- Translator: Laurence Khantipalo Mills
With Pasūra
“Here alone is purity,” they say,denying that there is purification in other teachings.
Speaking of the beauty in that which they depend on,
each one is dogmatic about their own idiosyncratic interpretation.
Desiring debate, they plunge into an assembly,
where each takes the other as a fool.
Relying on others they state their contention,
desiring praise while claiming to be experts.
Addicted to debating in the midst of the assembly,
their need for praise makes them nervous.
But when they’re repudiated they get embarrassed;
upset at criticism, they find fault in others.
If their doctrine is said to be weak,
and judges declare it repudiated,
the loser weeps and wails,
moaning, “They beat me.”
When these arguments come up among ascetics,
they get excited or dejected.
Seeing this, refrain from contention,
for the only purpose is praise and profit.
But if, having declared their doctrine,
they are praised there in the midst of the assembly,
they laugh and proudly show off because of it,
having got what they wanted.
Their pride is their downfall,
yet they speak from conceit and arrogance.
Seeing this, one ought not get into arguments,
for experts say this is no way to purity.
As a warrior, after feasting on royal food,
goes roaring, wanting an opponent—
go off and find an opponent, Sūra,
for here, as before, there is no-one to fight.
When someone argues about a view they have adopted,
saying, “This is the only truth,”
say to them, “Here you’ll have no adversary
when a dispute has come up.”
There are those who live far from the crowd,
not countering views with view.
Who is there to argue with you, Pasūra,
among those who grasp nothing here as the highest?
And so you come along speculating,
thinking up theories in your mind.
Now that you’ve challenged someone who’s cleansed,
you’ll not be able to respond.