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mn.108 Majjhima Nikāya (Middle Discourses)

With Gopaka Moggallāna

Thus have I heard. On one occasion the venerable Ānanda was living at Rājagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrels’ Sanctuary, not long after the Blessed One had attained to final Nibbāna.

Now on that occasion King Ajātasattu Vedehiputta of Magadha, being suspicious of King Pajjota, was having Rājagaha fortified.

Then, when it was morning, the venerable Ānanda dressed, and taking his bowl and outer robe, went into Rājagaha for alms. Then the venerable Ānanda thought: “It is still too early to wander for alms in Rājagaha. Suppose I went to the brahmin Gopaka Moggallāna at his workplace.”

So the venerable Ānanda went to the brahmin Gopaka Moggallāna at his workplace. The brahmin Gopaka Moggallāna saw the venerable Ānanda coming in the distance and said to him: “Let Master Ānanda come! Welcome to Master Ānanda! It is long since Master Ānanda found an opportunity to come here. Let Master Ānanda be seated; this seat is ready.” The venerable Ānanda sat down on the seat made ready. The brahmin Gopaka Moggallāna took a low seat, sat down at one side, and asked the venerable Ānanda:

“Master Ānanda, is there any single bhikkhu who possesses in each and every way all those qualities that were possessed by Master Gotama, accomplished and fully enlightened?”

“There is no single bhikkhu, brahmin, who possesses in each and every way all those qualities that were possessed by the Blessed One, accomplished and fully enlightened. For the Blessed One was the arouser of the unarisen path, the producer of the unproduced path, the declarer of the undeclared path; he was the knower of the path, the finder of the path, the one skilled in the path. But his disciples now abide following that path and become possessed of it afterwards.”

But this discussion between the venerable Ānanda and the brahmin Gopaka Moggallāna was interrupted; for then the brahmin Vassakāra, the chief minister of Magadha, while supervising the work at Rājagaha, went to the venerable Ānanda at the workplace of the brahmin Gopaka Moggallāna. He exchanged greetings with the venerable Ānanda, and when this courteous and amiable talk was finished, he sat down at one side and asked the venerable Ānanda: “For what discussion are you sitting together here now, Master Ānanda? And what was your discussion that was interrupted?”

“ Brahmin , the brahmin Gopaka Moggallāna asked me: ‘Master Ānanda, is there any single bhikkhu who possesses in each and every way all those qualities that were possessed by Master Gotama, accomplished and fully enlightened?’ I replied to the brahmin Gopaka Moggallāna: ‘There is no single bhikkhu, brahmin, who possesses in each and every way all those qualities that were possessed by the Blessed One, accomplished and fully enlightened. For the Blessed One was the arouser of the unarisen path …But his disciples now abide following that path and become possessed of it afterwards.’ This was our discussion that was interrupted when you arrived.”

“Is there, Master Ānanda, any single bhikkhu who was appointed by Master Gotama thus: ‘He will be your refuge when I am gone,’ and whom you now have recourse to?”

“There is no single bhikkhu, brahmin, who was appointed by the Blessed One who knows and sees, accomplished and fully enlightened, thus: ‘He will be your refuge when I am gone,’ and whom we now have recourse to.”

“But is there, Master Ānanda, any single bhikkhu who has been chosen by the Sangha and appointed by a number of elder bhikkhus thus: ‘He will be our refuge after the Blessed One has gone,’ and whom you now have recourse to?”

“There is no single bhikkhu, brahmin, who has been chosen by the Sangha and appointed by a number of elder bhikkhus thus: ‘He will be our refuge after the Blessed One has gone,’ and whom we now have recourse to.”

“But if you have no refuge, Master Ānanda, what is the cause for your concord?”

“We are not without a refuge, brahmin. We have a refuge; we have the Dhamma as our refuge.”

“But when you were asked: ‘Is there, Master Ānanda, any single bhikkhu who was appointed by Master Gotama thus: “He will be your refuge when I am gone,” and whom you now have recourse to?’ you answered: ‘There is no such single bhikkhu… whom we now have recourse to.’ When you were asked: ‘Is there, Master Ānanda, any single bhikkhu who has been chosen by the Sangha and appointed by a number of elder bhikkhus thus: “He will be our refuge after the Blessed One has gone,” and whom you now have recourse to?’ you answered: ‘There is no such single bhikkhu… …whom we now have recourse to.’ When you were asked: ‘But if you have no refuge, Master Ānanda, what is the cause for your concord?’ you answered: ‘We are not without a refuge, brahmin. We have a refuge; we have the Dhamma as our refuge.’ Now how should the meaning of these statements be regarded, Master Ānanda?”

“Brahmin, the Blessed One who knows and sees, accomplished and fully enlightened, has prescribed the course of training for bhikkhus and he has laid down the Pātimokkha. On the Uposatha day as many of us as live in dependence upon a single village district meet together in unison, and when we meet we ask one who knows the Pātimokkha to recite it. If a bhikkhu remembers an offence or a transgression while the Pātimokkha is being recited, we make him act in accordance with the Dhamma, in accordance with the instructions. It is not the worthy ones that make us act; it is the Dhamma that makes us act.”

“Is there, Master Ānanda, any single bhikkhu whom you now honour, respect, revere, and venerate, and on whom you live in dependence honouring and respecting him?”

“There is a single bhikkhu, brahmin, whom we now honour, respect, revere, and venerate, and on whom we live in dependence honouring and respecting him.”

“But when you were asked: ‘Is there, Master Ānanda, any single bhikkhu who was appointed by Master Gotama…?’ you answered ‘There is no such single bhikkhu…’ When you were asked: ‘Is there, Master Ānanda, any single bhikkhu who has been chosen by the Sangha…?’ you answered: ‘There is no such single bhikkhu…’ When you were asked: ‘Is there, Master Ānanda, any single bhikkhu whom you honour, respect, revere, and venerate, and on whom you live in dependence honouring and respecting him?’ you answered: ‘There is such a single bhikkhu whom we now honour…and on whom we live in dependence honouring and respecting him.’ Now how should the meaning of these statements be regarded, Master Ānanda?”

“There are, brahmin, ten qualities inspiring confidence that have been declared by the Blessed One who knows and sees, accomplished and fully enlightened. When these qualities are found in anyone among us, we honour, respect, revere, and venerate him, and live in dependence on him honouring and respecting him. What are the ten?

(1) “Here, brahmin, a bhikkhu is virtuous, he dwells restrained with the restraint of the Pātimokkha, he is perfect in conduct and resort, and seeing fear in the slightest faults, he trains himself by undertaking the training precepts.

(2) “He has learned much, remembers what he has learned, and consolidates what he has learned. Such teachings as are good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end, with the right meaning and phrasing, and which affirm a holy life that is utterly perfect and pure—such teachings as these he has learned much of, remembered, mastered verbally, investigated with the mind, and penetrated well by view.

(3) “He is content with his robes, almsfood, resting place, and medicinal requisites.

(4) “He obtains at will, without trouble or difficulty, the four jhānas that constitute the higher mind and provide a pleasant abiding here and now.

(5) “He wields the various kinds of supernormal power: having been one, he becomes many; having been many, he becomes one; he appears and vanishes; he goes unhindered through a wall, through an enclosure, through a mountain as though through space; he dives in and out of the earth as though it were water; he walks on water without sinking as though it were earth; seated cross-legged, he travels in space like a bird; with his hand he touches and strokes the moon and sun so powerful and mighty; he wields bodily mastery even as far as the Brahma-world.

(6) “With the divine ear element, which is purified and surpasses the human, he hears both kinds of sounds, the divine and the human, those that are far as well as near.

(7) “He understands the minds of other beings, of other persons, having encompassed them with his own mind. He understands a mind affected by lust as affected by lust and a mind unaffected by lust as unaffected by lust; he understands a mind affected by hate as affected by hate and a mind unaffected by hate as unaffected by hate; he understands a mind affected by delusion as affected by delusion and a mind unaffected by delusion as unaffected by delusion; he understands a contracted mind as contracted and a distracted mind as distracted; he understands an exalted mind as exalted and an unexalted mind as unexalted; he understands a surpassed mind as surpassed and an unsurpassed mind as unsurpassed; he understands a concentrated mind as concentrated and an unconcentrated mind as unconcentrated; he understands a liberated mind as liberated and an unliberated mind as unliberated.

(8) “He recollects his manifold past lives, that is, one birth, two births…as Sutta 51, §24…Thus with their aspects and particulars he recollects his manifold past lives.

(9) “With the divine eye, which is purified and surpasses the human, he sees beings passing away and reappearing, inferior and superior, fair and ugly, fortunate and unfortunate, and he understands how beings pass on according to their actions.

(10) “By realising for himself with direct knowledge, he here and now enters upon and abides in the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom that are taintless with the destruction of the taints.

“These, brahmin, are the ten qualities inspiring confidence that have been declared by the Blessed One who knows and sees, accomplished and fully enlightened. When these qualities are found in anyone among us, we honour, respect, revere, and venerate him, and live in dependence on him honouring and respecting him.”

When this was said, the brahmin Vassakāra, the minister of Magadha, said to General Upananda: “What do you think, general? When these worthy ones honour one who should be honoured, respect one who should be respected, revere one who should be revered, and venerate one who should be venerated, surely they honour one who should be honoured…and venerate one who should be venerated. For if these worthy ones did not honour, respect, revere, and venerate such a person, then whom could they honour, respect, revere, and venerate, and on whom could they live in dependence honouring and respecting?”

Then the brahmin Vassakāra, the minister of Magadha, said to the venerable Ānanda: “Where is Master Ānanda living now?”

“Now I am living in the Bamboo Grove, brahmin.”

“I hope, Master Ānanda, that the Bamboo Grove is pleasant, quiet and undisturbed by voices, with an atmosphere of seclusion, remote from people, favourable for retreat.”

“Indeed, brahmin, that the Bamboo Grove is pleasant… favourable for retreat is because of such guardian protectors as yourself.”

“Indeed, Master Ānanda, that the Bamboo Grove is pleasant…favourable for retreat is because of the worthy ones who are meditators and cultivate meditation. The worthy ones are meditators and cultivate meditation. On one occasion, Master Ānanda, Master Gotama was living at Vesālī in the Hall with the Peaked Roof in the Great Wood. Then I went there and approached Master Gotama, and in many ways he gave a talk about meditation. Master Gotama was a meditator and cultivated meditation, and he praised every type of meditation.”

“The Blessed One, brahmin, did not praise every type of meditation, nor did he condemn every type of meditation. What kind of meditation did the Blessed One not praise? Here, brahmin, someone abides with his mind obsessed by sensual lust, a prey to sensual lust, and he does not understand as it actually is the escape from arisen sensual lust. While he harbours sensual lust within, he meditates, premeditates, out-meditates, and mismeditates. He abides with his mind obsessed by ill will, a prey to ill will…with his mind obsessed by sloth and torpor, a prey to sloth and torpor…with his mind obsessed by restlessness and remorse, a prey to restlessness and remorse…with his mind obsessed by doubt, a prey to doubt, and he does not understand as it actually is the escape from arisen doubt. While he harbours doubt within, he meditates, premeditates, out-meditates, and mismeditates. The Blessed One did not praise that kind of meditation.

“And what kind of meditation did the Blessed One praise? Here, brahmin, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, a bhikkhu enters upon and abides in the first jhāna…With the stilling of applied and sustained thought, he enters upon and abides in the second jhāna…With the fading away as well of rapture…he enters upon and abides in the third jhāna…With the abandoning of pleasure and pain…he enters upon and abides in the fourth jhāna…The Blessed One praised that kind of meditation.”

“It seems, Master Ānanda, that Master Gotama censured that kind of meditation that should be censured and praised that kind of meditation that should be praised. And now, Master Ānanda, we depart. We are busy and have much to do.”

“You may go, brahmin, at your own convenience.”

Then the brahmin Vassakāra, the minister of Magadha, having delighted and rejoiced in the venerable Ānanda’s words, rose from his seat and departed.

Then, soon after he had left, the brahmin Gopaka Moggallāna said to the venerable Ānanda: “Master Ānanda has not yet answered what we asked him.”

“Did we not tell you, brahmin: ‘There is no single bhikkhu, brahmin, who possesses in each and every way all those qualities that were possessed by the Blessed One, accomplished and fully enlightened. For the Blessed One was the arouser of the unarisen path, the producer of the unproduced path, the declarer of the undeclared path; he was the knower of the path, the finder of the path, the one skilled in the path. But his disciples now abide following that path and become possessed of it afterwards’?”

- Translator: Bhikkhu Bodhi

- Editor: Blake Walsh


With Moggallāna the Guardian

So I have heard.
At one time Venerable Ānanda was staying near Rājagaha, in the Bamboo Grove, the squirrels’ feeding ground. It was not long after the Buddha had become fully extinguished.
Now at that time King Ajātasattu Vedehiputta of Magadha, being suspicious of King Pajjota, was having Rājagaha fortified.
Then Venerable Ānanda robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Rājagaha for alms.
Then it occurred to him,
“It’s too early to wander for alms in Rājagaha.
Why don’t I go to see the brahmin Moggallāna the Guardian at his place of work?”
So that’s what he did.
Moggallāna the Guardian saw Ānanda coming off in the distance
and said to him,
“Come, Master Ānanda!
Welcome, Master Ānanda!
It’s been a long time since you took the opportunity to come here.
Please, sir, sit down, this seat is ready.”
Ānanda sat down on the seat spread out,
while Moggallāna took a low seat and sat to one side.
Then he said to Ānanda,
“Master Ānanda, is there even a single mendicant who has all the same qualities in each and every way as possessed by Master Gotama, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha?”
“No, brahmin, there is not.
For the Blessed One gave rise to the unarisen path, gave birth to the unborn path, and explained the unexplained path. He is the knower of the path, the discoverer of the path, the expert on the path.
And now the disciples live following the path; they acquire it later.”
But this conversation between Ānanda and Moggallāna the Guardian was left unfinished.
For just then the brahmin Vassakāra, a chief minister of Magadha, while supervising the work at Rājagaha, approached Ānanda at Moggallāna’s place of work and exchanged greetings with him.
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to Ānanda,
“Master Ānanda, what were you sitting talking about just now? What conversation was left unfinished?”
So Ānanda told him of the conversation that they were having when Vassakāra arrived. Vassakāra said:







“Master Ānanda, is there even a single mendicant who was appointed by Master Gotama, saying:
‘This one will be your refuge when I have passed away,’ to whom you now turn?”
“No, there is not.”

“But is there even a single mendicant who has been elected to such a position by the Saṅgha and appointed by several senior mendicants?”

“No, there is not.”

“But since you lack a refuge, Master Ānanda, what’s the reason for your harmony?”
“We don’t lack a refuge, brahmin,
we have a refuge.
The teaching is our refuge.”
“But Master Ānanda, when asked whether there was even a single mendicant—either appointed by the Buddha,



or elected by the Saṅgha and appointed by several senior mendicants—
who serves as your refuge after the Buddha passed away, to whom you now turn,
you replied, ‘No, there is not.’


But you say that the reason for your harmony is that you have

the teaching as a refuge.
How should I see the meaning of this statement?”
“The Blessed One, who knows and sees, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha laid down training rules and recited the monastic code for the mendicants.
On the day of the sabbath all of us who live in dependence on one village district gather together as one.
We invite one who has freshly rehearsed the code to recite it.
If anyone remembers an offense or transgression while they’re reciting, we make them act in line with the teachings and in line with the instructions.
It’s not the venerables that make us act,
it’s the teaching that makes us act.”
“Master Ānanda, is there even a single mendicant who you honor, respect, revere, venerate, and rely on?”
“There is, brahmin.”
“But Master Ānanda, when asked whether there was even a single mendicant—either appointed by the Buddha,



or elected by the Saṅgha and appointed by several senior mendicants—
who serves as your refuge after the Buddha passed away, to whom you now turn,
you replied, ‘No, there is not.’

But when asked whether there is even a single mendicant who you honor, respect, revere, venerate, and rely on,
you replied, ‘There is.’
How should I see the meaning of this statement?”
“There are ten inspiring things explained by the Blessed One, who knows and sees, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha.
We honor anyone in whom these things are found.
What ten?
It’s when a mendicant is ethical, restrained in the monastic code, conducting themselves well and seeking alms in suitable places. Seeing danger in the slightest fault, they keep the rules they’ve undertaken.
They’re very learned, remembering and keeping what they’ve learned.
These teachings are good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end, meaningful and well-phrased, describing a spiritual practice that’s entirely full and pure. They are very learned in such teachings, remembering them, reinforcing them by recitation, mentally scrutinizing them, and comprehending them theoretically.
They’re content with robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and supplies for the sick.
They get the four absorptions—blissful meditations in the present life that belong to the higher mind—when they want, without trouble or difficulty.
They wield the many kinds of psychic power: multiplying themselves and becoming one again; appearing and disappearing; going unimpeded through a wall, a rampart, or a mountain as if through space; diving in and out of the earth as if it were water; walking on water as if it were earth; flying cross-legged through the sky like a bird; touching and stroking with the hand the sun and moon, so mighty and powerful. They control the body as far as the Brahmā realm.
With clairaudience that is purified and superhuman, they hear both kinds of sounds, human and divine, whether near or far.
They understand the minds of other beings and individuals, having comprehended them with their own mind.
They understand mind with greed as ‘mind with greed’,
and mind without greed as ‘mind without greed’.
They understand mind with hate …
mind without hate …
mind with delusion …
mind without delusion …
constricted mind …
scattered mind …
expansive mind …
unexpansive mind …
mind that is not supreme …
mind that is supreme …
mind immersed in samādhi …
mind not immersed in samādhi …
freed mind …
They understand unfreed mind as ‘unfreed mind’.
They recollect many kinds of past lives. That is: one, two, three, four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, a hundred, a thousand, a hundred thousand rebirths; many eons of the world contracting, many eons of the world expanding, many eons of the world contracting and expanding. They remember: ‘There, I was named this, my clan was that, I looked like this, and that was my food. This was how I felt pleasure and pain, and that was how my life ended. When I passed away from that place I was reborn somewhere else. There, too, I was named this, my clan was that, I looked like this, and that was my food. This was how I felt pleasure and pain, and that was how my life ended. When I passed away from that place I was reborn here.’ And so they recollect their many kinds of past lives, with features and details.
With clairvoyance that is purified and superhuman, they see sentient beings passing away and being reborn—inferior and superior, beautiful and ugly, in a good place or a bad place. They understand how sentient beings are reborn according to their deeds.
They realize the undefiled freedom of heart and freedom by wisdom in this very life. And they live having realized it with their own insight due to the ending of defilements.
These are the ten inspiring things explained by the Blessed One, who knows and sees, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha.
We honor anyone in whom these things are found, and rely on them.”
When he had spoken, Vassakāra addressed General Upananda,
“What do you think, general?
Do these venerables honor, respect, revere, and venerate those who are worthy?”
“Indeed they do.
For if these venerables were not to honor, respect, revere, and venerate such a person,
then who exactly would they honor?”
Then Vassakāra said to Ānanda,
“Where are you staying at present?”
“In the Bamboo Grove, brahmin.”
“I hope the Bamboo Grove is delightful, quiet and still, far from the madding crowd, remote from human settlements, and fit for retreat?”
“Indeed it is, brahmin. And it is like that owing to such protectors and guardians as yourself.”
“Surely, Master Ānanda, it is owing to the venerables who meditate, making a habit of meditating.
For the venerables do in fact meditate and make a habit of meditating.
This one time, Master Ānanda, Master Gotama was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof.
So I went there to see him.
And there he spoke about meditation in many ways.
He meditated, and made a habit of meditating.
And he praised all kinds of meditation.”
“No, brahmin, the Buddha did not praise all kinds of meditation, nor did he dispraise all kinds of meditation.
And what kind of meditation did he not praise?
It’s when someone’s heart is overcome and mired in sensual desire, and they don’t truly understand the escape from sensual desire that has arisen.
Harboring sensual desire within they meditate and concentrate and contemplate and ruminate.
Their heart is overcome and mired in ill will …

dullness and drowsiness …

restlessness and remorse …

doubt, and they don’t truly know and see the escape from doubt that has arisen.
Harboring doubt within they meditate and concentrate and contemplate and ruminate.
The Buddha didn’t praise this kind of meditation.
And what kind of meditation did he praise?
It’s when a mendicant, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected.
As the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled, they enter and remain in the second absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of immersion, with internal clarity and confidence, and unified mind, without placing the mind and keeping it connected.
And with the fading away of rapture, they enter and remain in the third absorption, where they meditate with equanimity, mindful and aware, personally experiencing the bliss of which the noble ones declare, ‘Equanimous and mindful, one meditates in bliss.’
Giving up pleasure and pain, and ending former happiness and sadness, they enter and remain in the fourth absorption, without pleasure or pain, with pure equanimity and mindfulness.
The Buddha praised this kind of meditation.”
“Well, Master Ānanda, it seems that Master Gotama criticized the kind of meditation that deserves criticism and praised that deserving of praise.
Well, now, Master Ānanda, I must go.
I have many duties, and much to do.”
“Please, brahmin, go at your convenience.”
Then Vassakāra the brahmin, having approved and agreed with what Venerable Ānanda said, got up from his seat and left.
Soon after he had left, Moggallāna the Guardian said to Ānanda,
“Master Ānanda, you still haven’t answered my question.”
“But brahmin, didn’t I say:
‘There is no single mendicant who has all the same qualities in each and every way as possessed by Master Gotama, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha.
For the Blessed One gave rise to the unarisen path, gave birth to the unborn path, and explained the unexplained path. He is the knower of the path, the discoverer of the path, the expert on the path.
And now the disciples live following the path; they acquire it later.’”