sn.11.5 Saṁyutta Nikāya (Linked Discourses)

Victory by Well-Spoken Counsel

At Savatthī. “Bhikkhus, once in the past the devas and the asuras were arrayed for battle. Then Vepacitti, lord of the asuras, said to Sakka, lord of the devas: ‘Lord of the devas, let there be victory by well-spoken counsel.’ And Sakka replied: ‘Vepacitti, let there be victory by well-spoken counsel.’

“Then, bhikkhus, the devas and the asuras appointed a panel of judges, saying: ‘These will ascertain what has been well spoken and badly spoken by us.’

“Then Vepacitti, lord of the asuras, said to Sakka, lord of the devas: ‘Speak a verse, lord of the devas.’ When this was said, Sakka said to Vepacitti: ‘You, Vepacitti, being the senior deva here, speak a verse.’ When this was said, Vepacitti, lord of the asuras, recited this verse:

“‘Fools would vent their anger even more
If no one would keep them in check.
Hence with drastic punishment
The wise man should restrain the fool.’

“When, bhikkhus, Vepacitti, lord of the asuras, spoke this verse, the asuras applauded but the devas were silent. Then Vepacitti said to Sakka: ‘Speak a verse, lord of the devas.’ When this was said, Sakka, lord of the devas, recited this verse:

“‘I myself think this alone
Is the way to check the fool:
When one knows one’s foe is angry
One mindfully maintains one’s peace.’

“When, bhikkhus, Sakka, lord of the devas, spoke this verse, the devas applauded but the asuras were silent. Then Sakka said to Vepacitti: ‘Speak a verse, Vepacitti.’ When this was said, Vepacitti, lord of the asuras, recited this verse:

“‘I see this fault, O Vasava,
In practising patient endurance:
When the fool thinks of you thus,
“He endures me out of fear,”
The dolt will chase you even more
As a bull does one who flees.’

-891 “‘Let it be whether or not he thinks,
… verses = 877–82 …
Are unskilled in the Dhamma.’

“When, bhikkhus, these verses were spoken by Sakka, lord of the devas, the devas applauded but the asuras were silent. Then the panel of judges appointed by the devas and the asuras said this: ‘The verses spoken by Vepacitti, lord of the asuras, are in the sphere of punishment and violence; hence they entail conflict, contention, and strife. But the verses spoken by Sakka, lord of the devas, are in the sphere of nonpunishment and nonviolence; hence they entail freedom from conflict, freedom from contention, and freedom from strife. Sakka, lord of the devas, has won the victory by well-spoken counsel.’

“In this way, bhikkhus, Sakka, lord of the devas, won the victory by well-spoken counsel.”

- Translator: Bhikkhu Bodhi

- Editor: Blake Walsh

Victory by Good Speech

At Sāvatthī.
“Once upon a time, mendicants, a battle was fought between the gods and the demons.
Then Vepacitti, lord of demons, said to Sakka, lord of gods,
‘Lord of gods, let there be victory by fine words!’
‘Vepacitti, let there be victory by fine words!’
Then the gods and the demons appointed a panel of judges, saying,
‘These will understand our good and bad statements.’
Then Vepacitti, lord of demons, said to Sakka, lord of gods,
‘Lord of gods, recite a verse!’
When he said this, Sakka said to him,
‘Vepacitti, you are the elder god here.
Recite a verse.’
So Vepacitti recited this verse:
‘Fools would vent even more
if there’s no-one to put a stop to them.
So an intelligent person should stop
a fool with forceful punishment.’
The demons applauded Vepacitti’s verse, while the gods kept silent.
Then Vepacitti said to Sakka,
‘Lord of gods, recite a verse!’
So Sakka recited this verse:
‘I think that this is the only way
to put a stop to a fool,
when you know that the other is upset,
be mindful and stay calm.’
The gods applauded Sakka’s verse, while the demons kept silent.
Then Sakka said to Vepacitti,
‘Vepacitti, recite a verse!’
So Vepacitti recited this verse:
‘I see this fault, Vāsava,
in just being patient.
When a fool thinks,
“He puts up with me out of fear,”
the idiot will go after you even harder,
like a cow chasing someone who runs away.’
The demons applauded Vepacitti’s verse, while the gods kept silent.
Then Vepacitti said to Sakka,
‘Lord of gods, recite a verse!’
So Sakka recited this verse:
‘Let him think this if he wishes, or not—
“He puts up with me out of fear.”
Of goals culminating in one’s own good,
none better than patience is found.
When a strong person
puts up with a weakling,
they call that the ultimate patience,
for a weakling must always be patient.
The strength of folly
is really just weakness, they say.
But no-one can challenge a person
who’s strong, guarded by the teaching.
When you get angry at an angry person
you just make things worse for yourself.
When you don’t get angry at an angry person
you win a battle hard to win.
When you know that the other is angry,
you act for the good of both
yourself and the other
if you’re mindful and stay calm.
People unfamiliar with the teaching
consider one who heals both
oneself and the other
to be a fool.’
The gods applauded Sakka’s verses, while the demons kept silent.
Then the panel of judges consisting of both gods and demons said this,
‘The verses spoken by Vepacitti
evoke punishment and violence. That’s how you get arguments, quarrels, and disputes.
The verses spoken by Sakka
don’t evoke punishment and violence. That’s how you stay free of arguments, quarrels, and disputes.
Sakka, lord of gods, wins victory by fine words!’
And that’s how Sakka came to win victory by fine words.”